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Serum
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Jan 18, 08 at 8:37pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

quote CleavesF
Watching your diet is a great idea, I personally recommend trying to increase your fiber intake (dietary specifically) and water. Note that I didn't say fluids. No alcohol (you're illegal anyways), no more than 2 cups of milk (skim or 2%), no gatorate, no juice (fruit juice in any form is just sugar).

If you crave juice, eat fruit. Actually eat the fruit. I know it's hard to peel or wash etc... but I don't drink juice anymore. If you can't do the fresh fruits, do applesauce. Try to stay away from canned fruits in syrup which is once again... sugar.
I agree that sugar is bad, but only added sugar (natural sugar found in fruit is ok for the most part). I disagree with what you said concerning fruit juice. As long as you buy some that has no added sugar, it is fine (look at the ingredients and if one of them is sugar, don't drink it).

There was a 10 year study that showed people who drank fruit or vegetable juice 3 times a week were 76% less likely to develop signs of Alzheimers. Other studies show that drinking a glass of orange juice before a meal will result in more weight loss. There are benefits to drinking juice. Normally I don't like to consume calories when drinking (in other words I mostly drink water) but I have all natural fruit juice a few times a week.


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CleavesF
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Jan 18, 08 at 9:37pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

The main reason I disagree with fruit juices as a healthy option is because they all lack dietary fiber which the fruits have. I can't say I never drink juice, it's just extremely limited in my diet and usually only during family brunch or the likes. You're right about no added sugar for sure though.

If you like the juice, might as well drink the fiber too. There are very few juicers out there that can juice fruit fibers, but if you get one, they're certainly worth the money. I remember seeing a demo at costco... very impressive. I'm not big on smoothies so I skipped that, but it's a good flavorful way to get your whey protein if you do end up using supplements.

ADDED: one more thing about applesauce, use it as a substitute for sugar in your recipes. It's great in brownies!


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Tumbles
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Jan 18, 08 at 11:52pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

Cleave the one problem with your advice is he wants to build muscle, not come out a skeleton with abs.


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CleavesF
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Jan 19, 08 at 2:41am
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

Can't really become a skeleton. Cardio builds muscles too, but mostly endurance.

Do you really think Lance Armstrong in his heydays was a skeleton?

If you think so maybe I should show you picture of my legs and all I do is bike. but flaming aside, thanks for contributing your very informative advice.


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Tumbles
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Jan 19, 08 at 2:53am
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

Small, toned legs. Why would I want to see those?

And yes, lance is/was amazingly thin with no real bulk on him at all.

You're recommending 6-7 hours of cardio per week. That will eat whatever muscle anybody has so quick.


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Jan 19, 08 at 4:43am
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

quote CleavesF
Well, I just got a job as a cycling instructor and now I'm my university cycling team... so I can tell you what's the fastest way to get into shape: Cardio.

Cardio doesn't exactly build muscle mass, but that can be built later.

I personally think it's more important to build a cardiovascular base, and then from there you can do intense strength training to build your body up. The reason I believe cardiovascular base to be essential to any training regiment is the fact that increase lung and cardiac output allows you to workout for much longer periods of time which can allow you to do maximal muscle damage for maximum muscle mass growth (hypertrophy).

Since running is very hard on your knees, especially if you're overweight, heck, even if you're of normal weight... I suggest you do elliptical or biking as those are NON-WEIGHT bearing exercises. These will build your cardio base and you will drop fat incredibly fast if you keep your heart rate (HR) in the 170-175 range for your age group (this is an average, and you should check what your max HR is by testing yourself doing anerobic threshold or seeing your doctor).

Do cardio at least 5 times a week for an hour. Anything less is almost useless if you really want to lose fat. If you can do 6 or 7 days a week that would be perfect though.

Watching your diet is a great idea, I personally recommend trying to increase your fiber intake (dietary specifically) and water. Note that I didn't say fluids. No alcohol (you're illegal anyways), no more than 2 cups of milk (skim or 2%), no gatorate, no juice (fruit juice in any form is just sugar).

If you crave juice, eat fruit. Actually eat the fruit. I know it's hard to peel or wash etc... but I don't drink juice anymore. If you can't do the fresh fruits, do applesauce. Try to stay away from canned fruits in syrup which is once again... sugar.

Sugar is the enemy. It's actually better to consume fat than sugars.

People might kill me for saying this... but Trans-Fats shouldn't be a big issue for you if you don't eat much meat or meat based products. Trans-Fats affect your cholesterol and if you're almost vegetarian like me, they're better than saturated fats in that matter. If you do eat meat, keep them away. Try to eat lean meats like poultry or fish. Expensive, but that's why it's expensive.

Once you lose your first 5 lbs or so you won't be able to stop. Also try to workout right after waking up, since this will boost your metabolism your entire day.

Also make sure to eat after working out. A cliff bar or a bowl of cereal is excellent. Try to get a bit of protein in for muscle recovery and make sure to stretch properly.

If you need any more tips, I can help you, or I can ask my boss. She's written so many articles in so many books and magazines it's unbelievable.
I appreciate your input very much, but what you have posted would be VERY unrealistic of me. That program also seems to be very niche of bicyclists or runners. I respect you're way of doing things but as far as a life-style change goes I don't see myself completely eliminating sugars from my diet and doing an hour of cardio 6 days a week.

Something else I noticed is that you don't mention other ways of exercising that give you some of the same benefits of cardio.

In the end I guess its about preference and what someone is trying to accomplish.


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CleavesF
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Jan 19, 08 at 9:12am
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

Being healthy is a lifestyle choice.

You can't set a goal to have a body type, in your case, muscular, without putting in the work.

If that's not a different lifestyle choice than you're currently living why even change anything.

It's my job to sway people towards a healthier lifestyle. Time is the worst excuse for anyone to say they can't exercise.

I didn't say turn vegan, stop eating chocolate, or anything else. I suggested you build a base, and work from that. That's all. As for my legs. Here, nice and lean and SKINNY like you said. NOT.

http://www.loudandfrench.com/images/legs.jpg

and one more from a pro cyclist for what cardio does... because you know that's not muscle...
http://www.bobkestrut.com/images/1984Kelly_Liege.jpg

also, nothing gives the same benefits as cardio. that's why it's called cardio. Weight training doesn't train for your heart and lungs, that is to a significant level.

Of course weight training is better for sheer muscle growth, what I'm telling you is that you can get superior muscle growth having a better cardiovascular base so your workout sessions can be more efficient.

Anyone who says cardio is easy is obviously mistaken. If you can't workout 5 days a week, do Intervals 2 to 3 times a week. It has the exact same benefits in the long run.

This message was edited by CleavesF on Jan 19 2008.


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Tumbles
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Jan 19, 08 at 6:07pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

There's a serious difference between your recommendation of 6-7 hours of steady-state cardio, and then intervals. Namely the ability to maintain muscle mass, and efficiency in fatburning.


And honestly, building a base with cardio? A base for what?

How can you say weight training is hardly significant in training heart&lungs, and then expect cardio to have any kind of significant impact on weight training workouts?


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Qoolflame
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Jan 19, 08 at 9:53pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

Cleaves, that is what I'm talking about. In your opinion cardio can be the end all be all. While I don't doubt cardio's usefulness I don't see it to the same extent that you do. It isn't cool trying to force that on everyone. It comes down to preference, there are different options for different people. Even if you did have science backing your post you still haven't taken several other variables into account, such as genetics, schedule(yes time is a factor if you have a career not dedicated to sports), medical conditions, etc. For example, I have Osgood Schlatter and it hasn't slowed down yet so I still have to deal with it. Anything from walking to riding a bike can cause a flare-up during which I risk not being able to walk for the rest of my life by doing anything other than resting. I like learning about other things and I'm open to it. Just because I disagree with some of the major changes you suggested doesn't mean I can't be healthy.

While you didn't say turn vegan stop eating choclate and such, you heavily implied at least eating close to none.

Nice pictures of legs....? I'm sure those legs were built from cardio alone (who cares about the rest of the body right) especially Kelly Liege.



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Serum
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Jan 19, 08 at 10:07pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

quote Qoolflame
Nice pictures of legs....? I'm sure those legs were built from cardio alone (who cares about the rest of the body right) especially Kelly Liege.
Cycling does build your legs. Not only is it low impact cardio, but it can increase leg strength and muscle mass when you are in a high gear or traveling uphill. Cycling replaced squats in my exercise routine (though I don't bike solely to exercise, I do it for many reasons).

On a side note, my Neohome is dedicated to the bicycle.


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Tumbles
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Jan 19, 08 at 10:54pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

cycling cannot replace squats

those legs are small and toned. congrats on cycling and all that. not everyone likes to be skinny and a biker.


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CleavesF
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Jan 19, 08 at 11:09pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

quote Tumbles
How can you say weight training is hardly significant in training heart&lungs, and then expect cardio to have any kind of significant impact on weight training workouts?
That's exactly what I said! Can't you read?!?!

Anyways, back to the discussion...

I don't just do cardio as a cyclist. That's a absolutely unfounded assumption. All athletes crosstrain to prevent injury. I not only bike and run, I do resistance, isometrics (science on that is iffy but it's worked for me, or I just think it has...) and weight train.

Crosstraining is the most important part of any workout plan. If you only workout you specific muscle groups for whatever purpose you might way, you are more prone to injury.

I've never thrown out my back, I've never gotten any major injury other than simple bruises or sprains that occur during crashes or falls.

I just ran Chicago last year in October in the damn 90 Degree heat, and I'm telling you for marathons you NEED strong legs. It's a weight bearing exercise, while cycling is not. Tumbles I would like to see all your credentials on giving advice, here are mine:

1) EMT 6 yrs - NREMT certification
2) Indoor Cycling Instructor - Its my job to get people in shape
3) Medic in Iraq - So that EMT cert actually had some real life use... only there for a year but that's mean anything when you're in the middle of the Sunni Triangle with the infantry

I presume you got an A in health class in high school right Tumbles? Yeah me too.


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Tumbles
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Jan 19, 08 at 11:18pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

Here let me explain this to you nice and simple:

Your advice is not all that relevant to original poster's goals.

I'm sorry you take offense to that fact.


And thanks for ignoring my question. Can you read? that wasn't a STATEMENT.




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CleavesF
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Jan 19, 08 at 11:24pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

Well once again, you can't read.

I already gave my reason for that question. I'll repeat it, for you Mr. No Credentials. And in bold, and underlined so you know what to skim and what to READ.

Increased cardiovascular base will enable you to have longer and more efficient weight training sessions due to increased capacity to do work.

did that make sense yet or should I say it a THIRD TIME?


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Tumbles
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Jan 19, 08 at 11:57pm
re: Developing a fitness plan, need lots of help...

You are apparently *bleep*ed.


"How can you say weight training is hardly significant in training heart&lungs, and then expect cardio to have any kind of significant impact on weight training workouts?"

That was my question. What you put doesn't answer it. At all. If cardio had such an effect on ability to weightlift, that would imply that cardiovascular health played an important part in weightlifting, which would also imply that weightlifting would increase health and capacity in those areas. Which would make doing cardio as a base for weightlifting as stupid as it sounds (is).


I may not have credentials, but I research and learn from people who know much more than you do.

Keep giving crappy advice plz.


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