I think you're missing Avalith's point completely. Everyone knows about Felony's shady past and he became a super. Which seems to suggest that you shouldn't place too much stock in your "its embarrassing" point because there are plenty of cases to the contrary.

quote Moonrise

Heh, it sort of makes you wonder over the necessity of permanent bans in the first place. At the very least, I think our usage of "permanent" is a poor way to generalize things.

Well, not really. The only other term we could use to properly describe it is indefinite ban. But that doesn't really have the same ring of finallity to it. And perma bans aren't really intended to be lifted. It just depends on the circumstances. Sometimes a member matures and we can let them come back. Sometimes not.

I believe all bans should be disclosed to the community unless it involves a third party and something extremely personal. Otherwise, the purpose of a ban is to show other members that something is unacceptable and to discourage them from doing something similar. Besides, if it's not disclosed, people always find out about it anyway and the true details get lost in gossip.

Either way, you're right. All bans should be disclosed or all of them shouldn't be publicized.

I thought the purpose of a ban was to make a point to the member in question. After all I don't need to see some one go to jail for murder to know that murder is wrong. And I don't need to make a public spectical of banning a spammer to let the community at large know that spamming won't be tolerated.

I do tend to publically warn people though. As I think the public warning is usually enough to get across the point to everyone participating in similar behavior. But in general I don't keep a public record and I rarely announce bans. If the member getting the ban wants to disclose the reason then that's fine. But I really don't feel it is my place to discuss the details of a ban with the community.

Right everyone, time to bring this to a close. Allow me to explain why:

I think we've gotten as much discussion out of this as possible and covered all angles. We're just going into the territory of veering off onto irrelevance and echoing what has already been said pointlessly.

Moonrise, you raised a valid point about a lack of consistency in the way it's handled. While it may be frustrating, that isn't going to change. Local forum bans are entirely up to the moderators discretion and so is the creation of a ban list. I know it might sound like a crap excuse to fob you off, but I assure you, it isn't. It's just largely the way Neoseeker operates. A lot of a moderators choice is down to his own discretion. Arguably, this is both a bad and a good thing. The communities are inevitably different and so the use of ban lists and name-shaming might work differently.

For site wide bans, you guys got your super moderator verdict on page four (check out Oz's quoted post at the end of this post).

I'm aware the lack of consistency is still present and this thread hasn't really solved anything, but the supers don't want to go down the avenue of full disclosure for site-wide bans yet there is no reason to keep this privacy for local bans. So the hypocrisy might just be the best avenue.

It's been, I guess a "controversial" debate - but I feel lame applying that term to a thread on an internet site. So if you do object to the closure of this thread and think it should remain open, drop me a PM to explain your reasoning. If you have valid points, I'll genuinely consider reopening this. In the mean time, I don't see what benefit this has other than debating an issue that's already essentially been decided on.

Thanks.

quote Superfast Oz

Site wide bans will never, ever, be publicly documented. We have neither the time or the inclination to explain ourselves to you all. I'm sure that will shock some of you, but it's the plain truth. Me and the other supers work as hard as anyone to keep this site running well, and we're not about to go overtime just to quash a few rumours. It's a fact of life that banned members lie to their friends, but that's just something we'll have to deal with. Sitewide bans will not be documented in public, nor will they be explained on demand.