I was originally going to wait for the PS3 version before picking this game up. My friend happens to have the 360 version and I borrowed it so I could get a feel for the controls and get my character skills/setup ready for my main character.

Anyhow, LONG story short I'm just a little upset that the endless/mindless/brainless/zombiefied "Efficient leveling" is almost a requirement

I'm a bit of a min/maxer....so I felta huge urge to do it and it's evident in just about any RPG type game. But wow, just wow lol. It took me a good 15-20 hours of playtime(my first time through) to do this. It just seemed a bit excessive is all lol. Before you say "Well you didn't have to do it =/" I will counter with this: I played my friends save game with a traditionally played character and he felt a complete gimp in comparison lol *shrugs* I'm venting! haha. It just felt a bit much and the difference between silly/bonk head leveling and just Playing was HUGE. *Done ranting, Thanks!*

PS: I love these games regardless! can't wait for the ps3 release hehe.

i didnt understand what you where talking about - hwat am i supposed to be "a little upset.." about?

and, yeah i didnt preorder but i am gonna buy this for the ps3 - i think it should have support of xfire just like in dark kingdom - sure its single player - i just would like that to be enabled

Yeah I hate the stupid leveling system. Its like they designed the game around the needs of people who dont normally play RPGs.

"Well we dont want them to wander off somewhere and get killed because thier level was too low.. Lets just make all the monsters the same level as the player.."

Bahh! Some of the most fun points of Morrowind were getting in way over your head and getting killed. Now with Oblivion, if you dont follow thier little leveling plan, you end up getting gimped and ruining your character.. Garbage....

quote Alicia n John

Bahh! Some of the most fun points of Morrowind were getting in way over your head and getting killed. Now with Oblivion, if you dont follow thier little leveling plan, you end up getting gimped and ruining your character.. Garbage....

quote Alicia n John

Yeah I hate the stupid leveling system. Its like they designed the game around the needs of people who dont normally play RPGs.

"Well we dont want them to wander off somewhere and get killed because thier level was too low.. Lets just make all the monsters the same level as the player.."

Bahh! Some of the most fun points of Morrowind were getting in way over your head and getting killed. Now with Oblivion, if you dont follow thier little leveling plan, you end up getting gimped and ruining your character.. Garbage....

quote

I think you may have just persuaded me to install Morrowind finally. I've had it for months and I've never even opened it.

I have to get Morrowind too. I didn't like to play RPGs before because to me they were like those stupid japanese kind (don't remember the name). Oblivion is excellent but the leveling system just isn't working like they intended, in other words forcing you to "efficient leveling" or getting your butt whipped by everybody. To me too it makes more sense that you can't go wondering everywhere when your a nub that can barely carry a sword.

well, i stole stuff so i didnt really need a good armor - and that costom class i did was great - but there are a few i'd like to change
and my character looks nothing like me
<<<<<<<<<< avatar

and now im just using those outfits that are with no DEF[ence]
just for looks... [using that gagger the guy gave me to assasinate the old dude]

if you want to quick level, just ;
1) jump around evrywhere, its faster than walking and running and it'll bump up your acrobatics skill and therefore levels faster than anything
2) cast lock opening spells at any recepticle you can find, it bumps up your alteration skill even if nothing is opened
3)ast lots of detect life spells to make your mysticism skill higher
4)if you can't be bothered jumping evrywhere, run evrywhere, meaning high athletics skill
5)eat any ingredients you find to raise your alchemy (just make sure you dont eat any poison apples +hint in a fortnorthwest of cheydinhal theres a huge hollow tree with a trap door, to the right of that room theres a locked barrel of poison apples - thought i'd just tell you)
6)repair all the armour you find even if you are'nt going to keep it
7)cast charm spells at people to raise illusion
8)if youre already at a high level, go to nocturnals shrine and get her eye for her (in tidewater cave, waaaaay south, near the sea) it opens any lock with tumblers, its an unbreakable lockpick, nice, it also raises your security skill
9)numerous others, but by doing them for a while you should bump those levels up like anything, higher levels means better items, better enemies and more loot, yeah baby!!
happy oblivioning

Yeah, like you say, the levelling system in this game is a great improvement over Morrowind where you too-quickly became a god ... and then it was a no contest walk through.

But they could have taken the levelling even further in Oblivion, because you still become a god in this game with the increase in stats and numerous power-ups you can use and get. At least in Oblivion you don't become a god quite so soon as you did in Morrowind, it's the one big fault of both games, becoming a god.

In fact, by far the most enjoyable time in Oblivion (and Morrowind) is early on in the game when you are weak and struggling and trying to build up your stats and acquire stuff, and getting in way over your head.

Now, if the game was so that you always had that exciting struggle to win and didn't become a god.

Still, Oblivion is a massive improvement on Morrowind due to that levelling which at least keeps the contest going for longer, and the interest going for longer, and getting in way over your head for longer ... quite apart from the other improvements and graphics over Morrowind.

Levelling as they do now, where when you get stronger then so the enemies, and they always stay hard to beat ... at least they do in the early part of the game when it is the most exciting. I say continue that levelling for longer ... or give the enemies some power-ups.

Ok Sitruc.. We all get that the game is too easy for you despite the difficulty slider. You must be an excellent and intellegant strategist with lightening fast reflexes and unmatched ability to plan a battle. Your prowess and endless talent in informing others of it has won you endless respect in the gaming community here at neoseeker. I take my hat off you sir.

But sitruc, What do you say to those that chose Alchemy as a primary skill for thier first character (because they wanted to be alchemests for whatever reason). Say they holed up in their house and made a few hundred potions and gained 6 levels from alchemy skill. The leveling system dictates they can only gain only ONE str pt per level (assuming they click strength at all). The leveling system also dictates that the enemies will be 6 levels stronger (and you can bet they gained more strength and weapon skill than the players pure alchemy levels)..

Not everyone is a hardcore player. The whole point of the game for most people is to relax and enjoy yourself and the role. It is a FACT, reguardless of how you feel about it sitruc, that the leveling system leaves alot of oppertunity for casual players to fall behind and get gimped. Its a flaw and this is exactly what the origional poster was discussing.

quote *bleep*

if you want to quick level, just ;
1) jump around evrywhere, its faster than walking and running and it'll bump up your acrobatics skill and therefore levels faster than anything
2) cast lock opening spells at any recepticle you can find, it bumps up your alteration skill even if nothing is opened
3)ast lots of detect life spells to make your mysticism skill higher
4)if you can't be bothered jumping evrywhere, run evrywhere, meaning high athletics skill
5)eat any ingredients you find to raise your alchemy (just make sure you dont eat any poison apples +hint in a fortnorthwest of cheydinhal theres a huge hollow tree with a trap door, to the right of that room theres a locked barrel of poison apples - thought i'd just tell you)
6)repair all the armour you find even if you are'nt going to keep it
7)cast charm spells at people to raise illusion
8)if youre already at a high level, go to nocturnals shrine and get her eye for her (in tidewater cave, waaaaay south, near the sea) it opens any lock with tumblers, its an unbreakable lockpick, nice, it also raises your security skill
9)numerous others, but by doing them for a while you should bump those levels up like anything, higher levels means better items, better enemies and more loot, yeah baby!!
happy oblivioning

quote Alicia n John

Ok Sitruc.. We all get that the game is too easy for you despite the difficulty slider. You must be an excellent and intellegant strategist with lightening fast reflexes and unmatched ability to plan a battle. Your prowess and endless talent in informing others of it has won you endless respect in the gaming community here at neoseeker. I take my hat off you sir.

quote Alicia n John

But sitruc, What do you say to those that chose Alchemy as a primary skill for thier first character (because they wanted to be alchemests for whatever reason). Say they holed up in their house and made a few hundred potions and gained 6 levels from alchemy skill. The leveling system dictates they can only gain only ONE str pt per level (assuming they click strength at all). The leveling system also dictates that the enemies will be 6 levels stronger (and you can bet they gained more strength and weapon skill than the players pure alchemy levels)..

quote Alicia n John

Not everyone is a hardcore player. The whole point of the game for most people is to relax and enjoy yourself and the role. It is a FACT, reguardless of how you feel about it sitruc, that the leveling system leaves alot of oppertunity for casual players to fall behind and get gimped. Its a flaw and this is exactly what the origional poster was discussing.

quote

"Yeah I hate the stupid levelling system. Its like they designed the game around the needs of people who don’t normally play RPGs"

They attempted to design the game to suit non-rpg regulars. Thier attempt was only partially sucessfull as is evident by the holes and problems which many have discovered in the leveling system. Your statement (as is much of what you write) was based on an incorrect assumption. You assumed that I considerd thier design a sucess.

I think it sucks. You think it rules. I think it takes away from the immersion of the game to have to plan levels or fiddle with some stupid slider. You dont. The difficulty slider is indeed a "cure all" for those willing to use it but its very existance is the same as an admittion from the devs of a problem with the system. Im glad it works for you sitruc but I dont understand why you would try to convince people that its working ok for them (other than to suggest they they dont know how to play right thereby suggesting that you somehow know better (another example of sitrucs famous deviceive self-inflating statements)).

Unfortunately I have learned that debating with you is a waste of time and an irritation to my nerves. Debate is generally pretty fun but your tendancy to stubbornly ignore or magically refute the most obvious facts gets old quickly. Even the most straitforward concepts can be twisted and regurgitated to mean something else (look at religion) and you sir are an expert. What you disguse through a veil of point-counterpoint bares little resemblence with real debate.

Continue with this if you wish but the facts I have pointed out still stand. All the petty bickering in the world is not likely to make everybody love the leveling system as you do. In fact its likely to foster dislike of you as it did with me with your previous tirade about using no armor. Your tendancy to pick though peoples posts for quotes to attempt to dissassemble also lends to this end. Conversing with you is like putting the trash out and seeing in the morning that the racoons have gotten in and slung garbage all over the yard. Your deviceive and arrogant demeaner pretty much tops it off.

Of all the fine people I have met on the many forums I have frequented, you Sitruc are one of the few I thoroughly dislike conversing with. In the future, I shall avoid it all togather. Feel free to respond with your trademark disassembly and carefull maniuplation to attempt to put yourself in a better light. I dont think whatever you say will warrant the time for me to give much response.

Have a good day sitruc....



This message was edited by Alicia n John on Feb 18 2007.

The only bad thing about the leveling system (besides the fact that you seldom are able to kill stuff in one hit) is that you can't level too heavily from non-combat skills. I think this is what everyone's been saying. What this means is that you can't level for the sake of leveling. You shouldn't pump alchemy 7 times just to get a level-up and you shouldn't cast night-eye 100 times to level illusion. That's when you'll get into trouble.

But this is a small tradeoff for a game that more adequately balances the good guys vs. the bad. If you mix combat skills with non-combat skills and level them all naturally, the game will not be too hard. In fact, it'll be just about right. If you meticulously plan your leveling, you'll find yourself a god once again.

Incidently, I don't think the leveling system has anything to do with encouraging non RPGers to play it. I think it had more to do with how easy Morrowind became after you reached a certain level. Their remedy for this problem isn't perfect, but I would humbly ask that anyone who doesn't like it suggest a better alternative.