quote ChiroVette

Cartel, he is your 2nd starter. In theory, he is your 2nd best pitcher. That's how the rotation works; you start your ace first, then your next best second, then your third, and so on. No way is Pedro your worst pitcher if he starts game 2 of the freaking World Series, dude!

Maybe so, but he doesn't impress me. Ofc he's not the worst of the team, but he's the worst of the best if you catch my drift. He doesn't have the endurance of Lee or the focus of Hamels.

I understand what you mean. My only point is if you are correct then why start him in a World Series Game two? Seems to me that this would be a mistake if Philly had better guys to send out there.

The way I figure it is this:

If you're Charlie Manuel you've got to be more than confident in Cliff Lee, right? He'd only need a couple runs to get them win. So if you believe that, and you send Pedro out for game two, worst case scenario you're looking at going back to Philadelphia either up 2-0 or even a game apiece.

Than you have last year's World Series MVP pitching the first of three games at home for you.

I see what you're saying, but not necessarily the logic. It sounds like you are hinting at Charlie Manuel looking at game two as a possible throwaway, as if he were semi-conceding the game to the Yankees. If your logic were accurate, regarding his reasons, I would counter with a question: Why not send up your best pitchers in order to try to put away as many games as possible as early as possible?

I wouldn't call it a throwaway. Obviously if you've taken game one you've already nullified home field advantage, so why not take a chance with Pedro, and come back at home with your second best pitcher and make a statement?

I get what Phil is saying. Pedro is going to pitch regardless and it will either be Game 2 or Game 3. If you get the win from Pedro you have this huge advantage and keep your home field. If you lose with Pedro you come out of New York even which is good for an away team.

I think of it more as he wanted to pitch Blanton in game 4. I don't like this move at all cause I think Blanton sucks, but I guess he doesnt want to pitch Lee early. So if you are in Charlie's minds the two games you have the least chance of winning are Pedro and Blanton. You start Pedro game 3 and lose then Blanton game 4 and lose and from a Phillies perspective you are in big trouble losing 2 at home. Yes the Yankees would have lost 2 in a row, but when it happens makes a big difference in my mind for the momentum of things.

quote ChiroVette

I see what you're saying, but not necessarily the logic. It sounds like you are hinting at Charlie Manuel looking at game two as a possible throwaway, as if he were semi-conceding the game to the Yankees. If your logic were accurate, regarding his reasons, I would counter with a question: Why not send up your best pitchers in order to try to put away as many games as possible as early as possible?

The Phillies second best pitcher is J.A. Happ, a rookie who pitches out of the bullpen currently. Third best for the Phillies is probably Martinez, or Hamels. Hamels has Cliff Lee's talent, but hasn't been utilizing it this season. J.A. Happ has been almost perfect in the regular season, but struggled in the post season. Cartel is right, Martinez is not our second best pitcher.

I understand that, but my point is that if I were manager, I would pitch my starters order of best to worst so that I could then start the process again in games 4 through 6 and have my ace available for a game 7 if necessary. I am not saying you guys are wrong (Phil in particular), only that in my opinion, Pedro should have started games 3 and 6 if necessary, not 2, setting him up to then be almost assured of starting game 5. See my point?

Not saying you have to agree, but that seems to me to be the more effective ay to handle your World Series starters.

Yeah but we need to come in hot tonight now that we're on home turf for the next three games, perfect opportunity for us to build the momentum needed to put this away.

That's definitely one way to look at it. The problem is that for game five you are now set up to have Pedro (at best your third best starter) on the mound when you should have your #2 guy.

Don't get me wrong, as a Yankees fan, that is just fine by me!

That's not the case at all, Chiro. You see, Game 4's starter will most likely be Joe Blanton. After Joe Blanton, Game 5 could go to Cliff Lee, or it could go to LHP J.A. Happ, who hasn't made an appearance in the World Series so far. Manuel and Rich Dubee both seem to have a clear idea as to what pitchers to use. If the series goes back to NY, then Pedro will make a start in Game 6 or 7, most likely.

Okay, there's where you lose me. Why not have Lee start game 4, which also sets him up to start game 7 if it goes that far? Pitching Lee in game 5 would virtually make him unavailable to start game 7.

Most likely, it's because Cliff Lee has never pitched on short rest.

Even for a quality pitcher like Lee, starting a pitcher on short rest is always a risk. If I was a manager, I'd rather pitch my ace on normal rest and have him pitch a gem than pitch my ace on short rest and have him pitch mediocre.

Different schools of thought, I guess. I have always believed that when you have an ace and two other really good pitchers, that your best play is to go to a 3 man rotation in the playoffs. Not that I don't see what you mean, though.