which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian

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Guan Yu 120%! unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jul 31, 06 at 11:20pm which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	persionally cao cao was the first and biggest. he created the three kingdoms era
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Zero Melfice In the eyes of the beholder. Neolithic total posts: 6131 since: Apr 2005	Aug 01, 06 at 5:31am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	I'd say Cao Cao was the better leader, because he wouldn;t hesitate for anything. Sun Jian did do pretty good there for awhile... but Sun Ce would have been better picked... and Liu Bei... virtue isn't always the better end man... ------------------- quote Oasis All of the stars, are faded away. Try not to worry, you'll see them someday.
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dwandswforlife Owner of Onix ultra seeker total posts: 1416 since: May 2006	Aug 09, 06 at 9:51am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	Wei(Cao Cao, Tsao Tsao) all the way. ------------------- http://timonix.tk/ Onix-The Friendly Company Owned by ME!
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The hugga bear unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Aug 09, 06 at 1:25pm re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	Cao Cao was the greatest leader of the era, however Liu Bei had the people backing him as the greatest. I can never decide between the two, for me Sun Jian doesnt even register...
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Zero Melfice In the eyes of the beholder. Neolithic total posts: 6131 since: Apr 2005	Aug 09, 06 at 2:52pm re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	The thing is, Cao Cao also had people that followed him. He wouldn't go out and randomly choose someone to execute, he would only execute them for example if they did something wrong in battle when they were designated something else. Or perhaps show signs of rebellion. Cao Cao has just as many people on his fan list as Liu Bei does. Liu Bei also if I recall, lost his temper before and that alone killed a lot of people, while Cao Cao has almost always kept his calm in any situation... ------------------- quote Oasis All of the stars, are faded away. Try not to worry, you'll see them someday.
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the hugga bear unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Aug 10, 06 at 12:17pm re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	this is true, cao cao had a huge army, liu bei had a lot of men with him but most were civilians (chang ban) cao cao was cold but like i said no doubt the greatest, he was smart too and like you said was less reckless with executions. Something Wu took heavy advantage of (in real life) and had many of the shu officers decieved into executing fellow loyal officers....liu bei wasnt really a man of virtue, but he was passionate...
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Zero Melfice In the eyes of the beholder. Neolithic total posts: 6131 since: Apr 2005	Aug 10, 06 at 3:17pm re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	He was a little too passionate lol.. Zhuge Liang even didn't want a few of those people to live, but he eventually had no choice but to take certain into his own hands. ------------------- quote Oasis All of the stars, are faded away. Try not to worry, you'll see them someday.
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bibbob Neophyte total posts: 33 since: Aug 2006	Sep 02, 06 at 1:27am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	by Sun Jian do you mean any Sun Family member? all soon did was: Assult yellow Turbans Assult Dong - Didn't do a proper job Found some silly statue Assult Liao Biao and Died However Sun Ce and Sun Quan were rather successful Also Cao Cao wages war on people for revenge often e.g his uncle
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Zero Melfice In the eyes of the beholder. Neolithic total posts: 6131 since: Apr 2005	Sep 02, 06 at 1:32am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	Sun Ce was the best leader Wu ever knew iirc, Quan wasn't even that good of a leader. And Cao Cao may have launched wars on people for revenege, but I'm sure you have gotten into a fight with your parents or other siblings haven't you? It's basically over the same thing, Land-Land, Game-Game. See? ------------------- quote Oasis All of the stars, are faded away. Try not to worry, you'll see them someday.
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bibbob Neophyte total posts: 33 since: Aug 2006	Sep 02, 06 at 1:42am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	Revenge is my main reason for invading on ROTK or any game like that, I agree Sun Ce was greatest. but Lei Bei has to be best from the three
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Zero Melfice In the eyes of the beholder. Neolithic total posts: 6131 since: Apr 2005	Sep 02, 06 at 1:50am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	State your explanation why, I kinda don't think Liu Bei was the greatest of them leader-wise... ------------------- quote Oasis All of the stars, are faded away. Try not to worry, you'll see them someday.
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bibbob Neophyte total posts: 33 since: Aug 2006	Sep 02, 06 at 1:56am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	He came from nothing (except Royal blood) in fairness Cao Cao came from less but... He never wanted to be a perfect (selfless) Generious (lets Lu Bu stay) I would never have done that after he has betrayed 2 "Dads" .... ok maybe that was a little stupid. Cares about the people (Chang Bang) and more but he does do some silly things, (like trying to get Zhang Fei not to drink and trusting him with the city....and not letting him kill himself)
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Zero Melfice In the eyes of the beholder. Neolithic total posts: 6131 since: Apr 2005	Sep 02, 06 at 2:02am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	Those are the reasons Liu Bei shouldn't be a leader. Seriously, letting someone like Lu Bu in and knowing him and one of your sworn brothers aren't the best of friends, means that he is risking his entire army, which he risked Zhang Fei's life when Lu Bu took over. After awhile, the generousity can be a little too much. I for one, am not gonna give my most precious time to defeat a huge enemy for the sake of my brother's death... he lost his temper, and got himself killed in the proccess as well as Zhang Fei... ------------------- quote Oasis All of the stars, are faded away. Try not to worry, you'll see them someday.
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bibbob Neophyte total posts: 33 since: Aug 2006	Sep 02, 06 at 2:10am re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	Zhang Fei was murdered by his own troops because he was an idiot. Also the Lu Bu incident was when he was inexperienced, no better way to learn than from your mistakes I say,if you throw a ball against a wall and it hits you in the face, you won't be doing that again but sisters, wife's etc are a little more than i'd like to lose to learn a lesson, also in the game he is made out to be the good guy so point of view has always been bit bias i suppose
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Petersson Neophyte total posts: 25 since: Aug 2006	Sep 02, 06 at 4:28pm re: which was the greatest leader liu bei cao cao or sun jian
	About Cao Cao, I'd like to use a quote from Zhang Song "he is a man to grieve with but not a person to rejoice with" look at Dian Wei and Xun Yu... About Liu Bei and Sun's family, I reserve my opinion for now
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