dunno if this will work with this game.
but it helps make you a better player if you actually care. otherwise it's just plain fun.

what you do is you state what you do as a defensive strategy or an offensive strategy. then someone sais what he would do to counter that strategy, what part of it he would take advantage of and turn against you.

so basically this thread should go as, one post states an offensive strategy then the next a defensive strategy to be used against the previous post. then again an offensive strategy to counter the previous defensive strategy.
(make sense? dunno last time i explained it better i think)

so who starts?

[edit] - just to be clear. khul, try to be more specific. who you move in first. backed up by who, what you attack first , etc. etc.

This message was edited by sinful_666 on Sep 04 2002.

Ok, let's start with the basic types. I do a full frontal attack using Humans. 10 Riflemen, 4 Knights, 4 Priests, a level 5 Hero and 2 Gryphon Riders. What do you do if you were using any race of your choice?

quote Kuldahar

Ok, let's start with the basic types. I do a full frontal attack using Humans. 10 Riflemen, 4 Knights, 4 Priests, a level 5 Hero and 2 Gryphon Riders. What do you do if you were using any race of your choice?

I defend this using orcs

Right. As way of defense to this, I would definatly make it a prioroty to try and make my base in a compact area, preferable with only one or two exits. And, clog them up with towers. And I mean loads, at the very least, 15 per entrance, but generally a lot more. I would also have lots of grunts, a few troll headhunters, and a blademaster there. Providing I'm not attacking myself, this'll be what I have. I just don't have as many troops guarding my base whilst I'm gone.

When the attack came, I'd make it a prioroty to destroy the hero. Being level five, he probably won't have any of the nasty surprises that level 6's have, but a blizzard could prove deadly. So, he'll die first.

I'll try and make the towers go for the gryphon riders, as their storm hammers can prove nasty to them. Due to my extensive tower stratergy, it shouldn't take long.

The priests arn't really a worry, I may set a tower on individual priests, but they won't be what I'm dreading.

It would be sheer foolishness to even consider setting a wyvern rider out into the fray. Those riflemen will just make sport of them. Flyers will definatly be a no go.

Luckily, the grunts should be able to wade through the riflemen with minimum losses, especially if by then they have beserker strength. The knights are a worry, but the grunts should be able to swarm them, especially with the Tower backup. I would make the knights my prioroty after the Hero, and I'd finish off with the riflemen. With the greatest anti-shooter stratergy - tower-power.


I can definatly see holes in my theory - I'm relying on this attack happening pretty late in the game. Also, I noticed no tanks in your starting line-up. The tanks would decimate my towers with speed, thus making my losses far greater. On-hand peons simply would not help.

Perhaps if the riflemen were swapped for footman, it'd be a different story, but riflemen are weak enough to be decimated by towers, and there won't be enough knights to hold back my grunts. Feel free to criticise.


So, to sum it up; Towers, they're cheap when you're an orc. Go mad with them. That's my defense.


-----


To counteract this, I'm not all that sure to tell the truth. I'd generally gruntrush if it was 1 on 1, providing I have the troops, but its no guarentee that I will after the attack. I really couldn't say how I would fight back and make the whole thing sound heavily strategical. Providing my hero's still around, I'd probably find a full quota of troops (with a catapult or two for the towers), and just attack. But I can see that getting repulsed.

This message was edited by Link_2000 on Sep 04 2002.

lol, go in head first huh, well if i were attacking, keeping in mind what you just said you'd do, it seems your playing totally defencive, your digging in, thats your stratigies weakness, you aint going to be attacking outwards, so i would set up bases a good distance from each entrance of yours, now these would consist of purely military buildings (id take along a good amoutn of peasants say 5 for each base, build a building one at a time for speed)-

Barracks X4
workshop X3
gryphon aviary X3

now id still have my main base which is for resourses and upgrades, totally seperate though.

now once the parimater bases are set up id start a well balanced army ustilising all units, footman and knights (but more knights) up front, second line would be rifle men and sorceress', third line would be priests.

now heading in first in send my motar teams say 5 and 5 for back up, and id send them in with the steam tanks now as soon as the first mortar lands your gonna attack so id send my first wave in to defend the mortar teams and take melee attention away from the steam tanks, the second and third waves would tuck in behind the melee action and attack aiding the first wave, the mortars will be aimed at the towers one at a time taking them out.

riders would just scout around picking of buildings that werent guarded, any peons that were unprotected

any peons would be taken out by the mortars, while this is going there be a constent stream of new units coming from my perimitar military base, always reinforcing my melee units, id use riders to attack form teh side of battle come in after so attention isnt on them, they will attack anything that isnt being delt with effectvily.

in battle id send the footmen with the defend power on the engage the ranged units, see with my military bases where they are i wouldnt have to disadvantage of attacking, with defended youd always have new units thats why its harder to attack then defend. but with the bases that weakness is gone.

id try and attack at both of the entrances at the same time, one attack with the bulk of my forces, but one small one that attacks at the same time, at the other entrance so you would divert troops away from the main battle, weakening your defences. this little force would be the same as the main force only smaller, but with the same amount of tanks, its purpose is just to distract you

This message was edited by Celcius on Sep 07 2002.

That's an attack that would most likely overwhelm anybody, regardless of any substansial hoardes of towers.

The problem being that it would take a very, very long time to get up a force of the capacity and strength, and you'll need around three gold mines at least. I'm not entirely defensive, and I do have a few partrolls (hehe) around the explored map, so I would probably notice just what you're doing, and gruntrush your bases before you've had dtime to either finish them or make the troops for them.

So, my best bet is to find and destroy your new bases before you've had time to make your army. Once made, I doubt I could do much aginst it, so I'll have to strike quick with either raiders or grunts (depending if the base at the time is more focused on buildings, which Raiders take apart, or troops, which grunts smash up).

So, I wouldn't be able to stand against that army, nobody could, so, my summing up of what I'd do in one setance:

Strike first, strike fast, strike hard.


If my counter-plan works, you'll have wasted so much money that you won't be able to do the same ploy again. At least not raise an army with a definate chance of wading through my towers.

**IGNORE THIS POST, GO ON WITH THE GAME**
link just as a thought, no strategy is non-counterable. see you made the mistake in the first scenario to forget to include scouts. the second post you can put is to preven his attack or just don't write anything. because no strategy cannot be countered. (except handicap, which i'm assuming you can't do in WC3. like in AOE2 building 40 trebuchets, thats a handicap strategy)
that can be countered with a defense that doesn't forget to scout the area, and a slight change in your base like using less on defending it by closing it out, remember you're supposed to defend against only a particular attack in this, someone can't come along and say; and if i see you have this defending your base i'll send this in. and if you don't have that i'll do this.

**ok carry on, i'll be the one ruling this thread when i get the game **

yeah you see youve already said what you are going to do, you can't go back and say oh i would of scouted and stopped you, you can't do that, i assumed that i would of had all this set up by the time you had build up your defences, i mean thats fair enough right., i also guess you would have to be in like a courner a confined space, i mean only one or two exits right

id make sure i had sturdy construction researched,so now i would start building defences half way between my perimiter bases and your defences,just in front on then but out of range of your view, id have a sort of deterant from attacking like knights in front and rifle men behind, now id start building first line of guard towers going all teh way across covering the exit, small spaces in between for cannon towers, and in front of the cannon towers id have to rifle men, so its kinda like : X= guard tower, .= rifle men, G= cannon tower, and the | is the edge. the - is teh knights, the units are just temporery to hide teh work of the peasants, i you dont know what im doing and you wouldnt take the risk until i attacked you.


once they are complete, i would retreat the knights, and move the rifle men in line with the cannon towers. i would research long rifles for sure here. when i am ready to attack i would move my troops into position, just as i said before.

************

or you can forget that and just tell me what you would do againt my first post, i mean think, i don't want this to be that short

This message was edited by Celcius on Sep 08 2002.

I got a pretty good defensive strategy for all clans. first you build a line of towers or ancient guards in front with an entrance in the middle. then behind the towers place some workers with automatic repair activated. then place some siege weapons(meat wagons, catapults, etc.) behind the towers. then build a row of towers behind those and close off the sides with towers.
a suggestion for the humans its usually good to make the back row of towers cannon towers and the front row arrow towers.