You're exactly right man, it would be great to see the Oni movie stick to it's guns!

Good to hear you're back Sean!

I too would like to see a revamped version of Onimusha warlords. But i doubt that's going to happen- it sounds like a cross between DOD, warlords and a maybe a bit of Oni3!

What with Heath Ledger meant to be playing Roberto (before a replacement was found) and the mention of Princess Yuki it certainly sounds like a sum-up of the entire series- perhaps they will combine all the major events and action sequences to make the film?

I would like to see a different storyline to that of the Onimusha we know and love, with a different main character and perhaps a cameo by Takeshi Kaneshiro (Sam)!!!

Ya it makes sense that they'd get as many different characters as they could by taking from DoD and Oni 1. So no Oni 2 characters huh? I'm sure a story combination of Oni 1 and 3 would be manageable since they've both got Sam in them. Then just have Fortinbras surviving for the time travel thing and then have that fight at the end.?

So they have someone else lined up to play Sam? IMO Takeshi was perfect to play the part. He's the original Sam and hes the only one thats ever played him and is basically responsible for Sam's badassness. If hes not Sam, they'd better at least give him a cameo, like you said, or I'll be very upset.

I'm pretty sure Takeshi is playing Sam. Regardless, I'll probably go see it no matter what.

I figured they would be doing a summary of the series, but they might just skip Oni's 2 and 3. You never know. But I'm hoping for a Warlords story, and maybe some sequels after that, just like the game.

If I were to make the movie, I would probably do what Inabayama suggested and cover the Oni-Genma War, but it'd probably a prologue, and then I'd jump to Warlords.

This is off-topic, but in my long absence, I've had time to think. If Fortinbras was sealed in the Omen Star following the O-G War and up until DoD, how did he fight Sam in Warlords? Did he get out of the Star somehow? Because several of Guildenstern's documents say that he had been around for a while, conducting Dark Ceremonies and whatnot. Maybe Sam didn't kill him, but sent his spirit back into the star or something. Or maybe the Fortinbras that Sam fought was just a small fraction of Fortinbras's spirit? Thoughts? Theories?

Guildenstern said that Fortinbras had been around since the dawn of time, hanging around underground. Hes also responsible for creating the other demons I believe. Any notion that the Oni sealed him up is bullshit according to Oni 1. Dont forget, the Oni had a technological advantage, but the Genma seemed to be the more ritualistic and spiritual than the Oni, who seemed more science based (but since then have become more into the magic, with sealed powers within weapons, orbs, etc.) Thats why the Demons ended up winning the war in the end - they were simply more powerful. I mean, the Oni's most successful weapon WAS the Oni-Genbu, right? Guildenstern is the one who got the demons up to speed for technology and then started selling that and immortality to humans in return for sacrifices. My point of going into that was this: The Oni seem much less likely to seal their enemy into a star by magical means than say, the demons would.
Also, iff the Oni successfully sealed away Fortinbras, I feel like they would have won the war shortly after. Thats what happened after Sam killed him, at least for a while.

Anyway, I think Fortinbras was never sealed up; he looked pretty dead when Sam was done with him
Fortinbras in DoD was like a reincarnation of the God of Light, the Genma deity. It makes sense to me that the Light God's form would take the shape of Fortinbras, who freed the first demons. I feel like this is the only way continuity can be established between the games.
DoD isnt Oni 4: DoD. Theoretically, its not strictly part of the series the way that 1,2, and 3 are. It could have taken the entire story of the first three and changed it. Instead, the characters' histories stay consistent, but a lot of the Oni/Genma history seems tampered with in DoD, you know? The whole Light God and Dark God thing had absolutely no base in the first games. You'd think that all the anecdotes, all the meetings with Oni spirits, all the browsing through ancient manuscripts and annuls, and the scavenging through Oni libraries would point to some sort of big event in which they had sealed away the enemy leader into a star, or that they would predict his return after doing so. There is nothing like that in the first three, meaning it simply didnt happen according to those games. Even narrations after Oni 1 say things like - Samanosuke slew Fortinbras, rather than sealing him in a star which would have been A. Pointless when he could just kill him, and B. Improbable since we witnessed the entire event, and we have seen that Sam just plain killed him the raw and old fashioned way rather than conducting some ritual to trap Fortinbras. Hell, something like that did happen with Nobunaga, but not with Fortinbras.

So basically DoD separates from the other games in regards to the Oni/Demon history. Characters have flawless continuity but history is tampered with, meaning that if the movie is going to connect them, it'll have to deal with that problem by choosing either the 1-3 history which is pretty consistent, or the DOD history which breaks with the others.
Personlly I'd take Oni 1-3 as canon (plus I just prefer them as their story is more original and interesting), and just chalk up DoD's ending to some sort of delusional non-Onimusha fantasy

This message was edited by InabyamaCastle Guard on Nov 11 2009.

I see what you mean. DoD didn't really seem like it was part of the main series anyway. But here's another suggestion: If Sam DID kill him (which seems quite likely, after finally seeing what he did), then perhaps the God of Light was a reincarnated Fortinbras? I could come up with a better theory, but I'll just assume DoD was meant to reboot the series.

I find it funny how, in Oni 2, Oyu says that the Genma hate light, but in DoD their god is a God of Light. (Somewhat of another minor continuity issue.)

Just like the appearance of the Oni Gauntlet. It was black and red with a navy blue eye by the end of Oni 3, but it was smaller and had returned to it's original gold color in DoD. Yes, I pay A LOT of attention to detail.

There are several more issues that could be debated, but I'll just take your advice and accept Oni's 1-3 as canon, and DoD as a...distorted extension of the story.

That also makes me wonder: Which has more canon credibility? Warlords or Genma Onimusha? I know that they're practically the same, but there were several notable differences.

They could cover up that type of thing by scrapping the whole 'he was sealed in the Omen Star,' and just make something up to the end that Fortinbras was the last remaining type of massive serpentine demons who are among the oldest and most powerful of the demons, and the Light God placed them on different planets or something. Or the Oni killed all the other ones.

Maybe the lower-level demons dont like it as theyr not worthy of being in the presence of their god.

Ah, newer more fashionable line of gauntlets perhaps? Its good to have more hardcore Oni players around. Ya I also noticed that in DoD the gauntlet had been toned down in size and its appearance was less prominent and more easily overlooked. If it was the same, Oni fans would have spotted that thing immediately and made the connection that Tenkai was Sam a lot faster, which would kind of ruin the surprise of it.

I would definitely accept the first three as legitimate over DoD. DoD stays pretty accurate up until the end honestly; thats the part when I said to myself that it was losing credibility. All through the game I kind of ignored the part about Soki being the Oni God, but at the end it became too big of a thing to sweep under the carpet.

Actually I never played Genma Oni because I dont have an Xbox. I'd be curious to know what differences there were besides the new souls and enemies. Do they add on to the story?

That's a nice idea, with the serpentine demons being a different race of Genma. Like the most powerful class. Which would open up the possibility of "Fortinbras" being a species title, and not the name of a specific Genma. It works.

And that makes even more sense.

I WANT A SILVER ONE! I guess it would have ruined the surprise, but it would have been nice to have some sort of explanation after we found out it was Sam. But then again, who besides Sam, Jacques, and Marcellus has had an Oni Gauntlet? Jacques's is gone, and Marcellus's is black and more basic in appearance. That only really leaves Sam, a red-armored warrior who was last seen with a young girl. Just like Tenkai.

I never understood the whole "reincarnated Oni god" thing, so I just ignored it. He never really showed the personality traits that one would expect from a god, anyways.

Well, I've seen someone else play it, and it wasn't much different from Warlords, but there were several new details, like armors that were never seen again, there was Ayame, a Genma who resembled a porcelain doll, there was the Demon Tower (It's the tower with the sandbags in front of it in Warlords, where you fight the two yellow Bull Genma and the giant red Bull Genma, and the area where you get the Decorated Sword and the Vision Staff), which is kind of like the Dark Realm. And Genma could absorb green (now purple) souls in that game to become stronger.

If you want a silver one, I think you'd have to appeal to the Chinese Oni, since China consumed like 2/3rds of the world's silver at that point. They just loved silver over there I've always preferred Silver to Gold in any event. I think the non-upgraded gauntlet is the closest we've come to a silver one thus far.

Ya. I assume prolonged containment of Nobunaga's power transformed it to make it look... more ordinary? It should have turned a poisonish deep purple, grown significantly, and started sprouting little demon spikes.
I agree, its perfectly obvious that its him after you know.. but I reached stage 7 without realizing it, and Sam is one of my favorite characters of all time. So actually I feel like they made him different enough, or unlikely enough that it was him, to conceal it from fans.

I've been watching some Genma Onimusha on youtube. Its weird to see like Oni 3 tech in Oni 1. The green souls, the charging up the weapon, and in the video I saw, speak of the devil, Sam had some nice silver armor. It looked a bit too knight-ish though. Anyway I'd probably trust Oni 1, since I believe that Sam's first Oni transformation was when Fortinbras killed him. If he transforms before that, the ending is sort of messed up.

The teal-ish one? I never liked the non-upgraded gauntlet, it didn't go with Sam's armor too well.

The purple gauntlet with demon-spikes would be awesome... But now that I think about it, I did mention that Marcellus' gauntlet is more basic-looking, so maybe it is prolonged contact with a Genma. Because in Oni 3, the Oni army have gauntlets that resemble Sam's.

I had a feeling it was Sam when I heard his music during the fight with him. It seemed logical, and then I was for sure when I saw Ako/Arin. But now that I think about it, Ako did say that she used to travel with a western Onimusha, and while this is an obvious reference to Jacques, it never directly mentions him. So it leaves the window open for more Onimusha's with different gauntlets.

I guess, I never made that connection before. But in his transformation in Oni 1, he became the ultimate Onimusha that fights Nobunaga in Oni 3. Although, in Genma Onimusha, he doesn't really become an Onimusha, he just gets stronger and is surrounded by a green glow. And there are also some other armors, and I like th Oni Armor (as I think it's called) the best, personally.

Ya lol. I think its purposefully supposed to be sort of unattractive and odd looking. I mean, its not at full strength so its like a raisin

Ya Marcy's is kind of difficult to make out, especially when Guildenstern has him trying to kill you. Its cool that it still functions like Sam's, with its 'eye' being the starting point of elemental weapon formations. I wonder if it can absorb

Theres definitely an opening for other Oni warriors. I cant think of the exact point, but in either Oni 3 or DoD, someone says something to the effect of, "Of course! Did you think the Onimusha were only in Japan?!?" I'm thinking its Arin in DoD. However, even though the demons were in contact with Ghengis Khan and Alexander, thus 'international,' I was under the impression that the Oni were largely contained to the islands. All of their important locations are there. Maybe the demons expanded after the war

Ah I see. I just sort of think of that as Oni 1 with Oni 3 technology. Oh, what do the other armors look like?

Hey Sean, that is where me and Castleguard's opinion differs. I personally see Oni DOD as a continuing of the series- even though it was not called Onimusha 4, it is a carry-on for the series in all but name! Though i can see what you mean with the Genma Gods and different Oni forms ETC i just think they tried to change things up and bit- if they didnt change it up i don't think DOD would have been so much of a success. Still, i thought of the series like this: Warlords was rescue a princess from demons, Samurai's destiny was get revenge for destruction of Yagyu village and Demon siege was basically stop the demons in the past and future.

But when i got DOD i was like- woah! Gods fighting, apocalyptic battles and cities being crushed. I loved DOD because it made a logical step forward, being so epic. I also liked the idea of Soki, who opposed his Father, but was just a lone samurai!

As long as they continue the story in the series properly (AND make a demon-oni war prequel sometime) then the series will continue to be one of the all time greats- and my favourite series! It beats God of War and Devil may Cry in my opinion...


As far as you were saying about the gauntlet changing, i noticed that too, i just never took much notice of it. The gauntlet is nothing now- just a vessel for Nobunaga's soul until it can be sealed. I doubt it can absorb souls. Like when Sam travelled to the future and couldnt use his old orbs (unless you unlock them on later playthroughs!).

I've played Genma musha too, round a friends house. There arent much changes, but the green souls kinda suck. The awakening is lame compared to Oni 3, or even Oni 2. I noticed when you fight against Ozric he becomes enraged, and his speed is vastly increased. Those are some of the newer features in it. I still prefer the original, and it explains how Sam unleashes his ultimate Oni state.

I'd like a Oni game set in another country- it would be interesting to see. Like China or the middle east, or perhaps Europe. Would be awesome to meet some other Oni's!!!

Bah, I feel like nothing can really out-epic the original Samanosuke vs Fortinbras. The battle is just so well done, and I much prefer the little guy, the lone Samurai without any kind of predestined victory or godly powers, and yet he still overcomes a seemingly undefeatable foe.

I feel like the degradation of sequels in general is because they always feel the need to try to reach new heights of epicness, thus continually underplaying their own history. You know?
Besides, DoD was completely fine on the epic scale with Soki and a few choice warriors by his side to resist the world domination of his father who was corrupted by greed, with very memorable and scheming henchmen by his side. That was 100% in line with the previous Onis stories, but even that was underplayed due to the whole gods conflict thrown in needlessly at the end.

Its also kind of ironic that they revived the massive and imposing god of light, and then the final fight just turned out to be against a humanoid, which could have just as easily been Hideyoshi.

I like destruction of cities too However, the demons had that down to a science by the opening scene of Oni 2.

heh, Ozrick could use a bit more of a boost. So it must be harder to avoid him then eh? The 'demon realm' type thing where you enter the (West?) gate that had the sandbags on it seems like a real challenge. I watched a youtube thing where they dude had to fight like 8 big red ax demons in a single floor

I agree - even though I stand by my theory that the Oni were Japan based, its obvious that the spirits can now choose someone from anywhere in the world to award a gauntlet to.
I actually feel Jaq covered middle age Europe well enough, being at Mt St Michelle and everything (though there was a disappointing lack of knights and such there). I would love to see something fully original like a nomadic Native American Oni Being nomadic and fighting against the demons would be really cool - consider it, you have a moving home base, you have a whole new set of techniques like mounted warfare, weapons besides just swords, and plus you'd have the Euros and everyone over there too. South Americans like the Inca would be good too, anything that people wouldn't expect.

I told you that was where our opinion differed eh? haha

I actually LIKED Soki holding a Godly power within him, but he seems clueless to the fact he has a piece of Onimusha godlyness within him. I never saw the God of Darkness as a being that all Oni bow down to... i just saw it as a 'Black oni' figure, as prophesised by Tenkai. So i always see Soki as a 'chosen one' type character who has a darker Oni Spirit in him.

In Oni 5 i would like to see the 'Black Oni' as a seperate being to Soki. As i said previously, Soki could return to Japan without his powers (but with the ability to have brief sparks of his former awakening) but perhaps the Dark Oni could return and grant power to someone else- or perhaps aid Soki's quest to stop his father/brother. I'm not saying the almighty God of Darkness should be made a character- im saying they should right off that idea totaly. No more Oni Gods. But they could explain it all away by saying the Black Oni is also a spirit, much like the Clan of Ogres. I would love that to happen- it also seems more credible to the series.

And perhaps they could have one last 'Fortinbras' or 'Serpent'? I like the idea of a final, super-epic return of Nobunaga as the final boss but as we were saying before- If Munenori is hoping to get his hands on the gauntlet (Not forgeting all the other tyrants who wish to have the Genma King's power) perhaps a big fight later in the game, when all foes and heroes come together, shall decide who holds the gauntlet for a while. And perhaps it will have some sort of CRAZY effect on the holder? That would be interesting to see!

WOW i like your idea, of a American Oni game. That would seriously RULE! Imagine all the different races that could be incorporated- Inca, south American and perhaps some Nomadic clans from the far North! It would be visually stunning to see all those cultures in one game!

To each his own then eh? Odd that we seem to agree on 90% of all things Onimusha and yet disagree so much on the ending of DoD.

Thats a nice idea about Soki having like random awakenings of power but not knowing how to control it. But dont forget, as per Onimusha canon, he cannot return to be the main character for two games in a row Ha, that would be a great way to tie it to the rest of the series - the Oni God was really a spirit all along that somehow survived without a body? If Soki comes back from the Omen star though, I feel sure that somebody would have to stay in there as its 'sacrifice,' and that would then have to be the spirit that empowered him.

Thinking about all the places they could go around that time period, the situation in the 'New World' seems to be one of the best. With the lack of in-depth remaining history, you could do pretty much whatever you wanted granted you meet the few points of great importance. I think it would be fun to be in a nomadic tribe fleeing southward away from the Demon's advance and then being empowered by the Oni, and that way you can get into the urbanized areas + greater populations of the South American tribes and get some nice diversity of landscapes and battle settings - plus, more for the demons to do what they do best: destroying/slaughtering.

Still, nothing beats the Japan setting for Oni imo. Right there during Warring States seems to be a great time and place for it - the problem is, Tokugawa will have nearly united the country by the time the next game starts. The massive fighting between him and Mitsunari would be great But once thats done there isnt much fighting left to be done in Japan. Thats where the problem will come in and they might have to relocate

I'm not really sure how I'd feel about Oni's in other countries. It would certainly have a different feel, I think.

Tenkai's gauntlet can still absorb souls, it was shown doing so in the video of Soki's transformation. Except all of the souls were blue for some reason.

I think they should just do away with the Oni and Genma gods, things get convoluted whenever they're around... If Soki were to come back, I'd hope he wouldn't be stapled to the God of Darkness anymore.

Mitsunari and Tokugawa fights would be awesome! Especially with Sakon at Mitsunari's side, as was discussed earlier in this forum.