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Byzantine The earth was blue, but there was no god Neolithic total posts: 6994 since: Apr 2008	Jun 06, 09 at 2:17am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	quote HilaryDuffGta quote FFVII Dirge of Cerberus (PS2) that came out years ago....are they remaking it or something?? also if we want to talk about great rpg's that came out before ff7 how come no one has mentioned Legend Of Gaia For the snes....or was that mentioned??? I mentioned it in another thread at some point in time. ------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Comics
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ShadowGuard To Err is human; to forgive, infrequent Still Seekin' total posts: 3990 since: Apr 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 3:22am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	HilaryDuffgta. The compilation is a group of FFVII games it consists of: FFVII: Crisis Core FFVII FFVII: Advent Children/ Complete FFVII: Dirge of Cerberus All these games/movie go along with the original story of FFVII. Crisis Core was the last one to be released and they stated it was not the last one in the compilation and that there would be a finale. Many people consider the finale to be a FFVII Remake, while others think it is FFVII-2. I personally think there will both @Byzantine, you keep listing all these games, and while they are no doubt great games, they did nothing major for the West. The West remained oblivious to them just like every other RPG. Moonset made a brilliant post and said everything I wanted to. Great games like the ones you listed did not bring RPGs to the West, FFVII was the first RPG to be truly accepted by the West and now the RPG genre is massive worldwide. If anyone else is going to enter this discussion, Moonset's post was brilliant, read it over once or twice. -------------------
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Byzantine The earth was blue, but there was no god Neolithic total posts: 6994 since: Apr 2008	Jun 06, 09 at 5:33am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	Phantasy Star IV was alone the single best selling RPG of the sega genesis and Super NES era, and the 5th best selling game of the time world wide. Chrono Trigger was the third best selling game in 1995, behind Donkey Kong Country 2 Secrets of Mana is the number 42 of nintendo's top 200 games ever. And that's just a few examples. Again, FF7 was hardly the first successful rpg. If you're going to make a claim as to why it's great, try making a factual one. Just because FF7 was the first RPG you noticed, doesn't mean it was the first period. Legend of Zelda is another distinctly and hugely popular rpg before FF7. Hugely popular This message was edited by Byzantine on Jun 05 2009. ------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Comics
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Final Blade Legendary Seeker total posts: 16841 GameGrep pts: 13817 since: Nov 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 7:18am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	quote Byzantine So what you're basically saying is "It doesn't matter if their were deeper plots in different games, or RPG's that were even better. Final Fantasy 7 is the best because it's the one i played when i was a kid." Well, thanks for admitting the bias. _{Thanks for missing my post about "I may be biased towards FF7 since It was my FIRST RPG/FF game." And FYI I know all those games, I just stated which you missed AGAIN that I NEVER played them thus can't give a honest opinion . Moonset said everything that needed to be said.} quote Chris717 quote Final Blade quote Chris717 I just saw it at £7.99, but i have £2.44 in my wallet. So that means i would only have £7.44 with the compulsary £5 top-up. Therefore, i will not buy this game. Sony should let you choose the amount you top-up _{So, you're complaining about the price where places that sells this disc games it's raised to $60-$100 dollars? Sorry but mindboggling.} This isn't worth $60-$100, it's just a digitl copy. And as a person who always never thought JRPG's looked stupid, i am contemplating buying this game. I am only buying it from what i heard. So if Kik36 is wrong, i have wasted £10 for a game i may not like. _{I never said it was worth that much for a digital copy. Read my post I clearly stated "THAT SELLS THIS DISC GAMES FOR $60-$100 in stores. Meaning Ebgames, amazon, ebay...etc} quote HilaryDuffGta I agree with you on all that but i still dont see it happening...but thats just me....i am with you though i'm one of the fans that wants to see a 7 remake...now for my second question.. quote FinalBlade "Compilation isn't over" What compliation??? what are you talking about? _{I do, and so does SE, as I said they put them selves in a position that has to be done. As for compilation, any game/movie that has the title Final Fantasy 7 means it has something to do with FF7 universe thus compilation or a collection if you will. Final Fantasy 7 Before Crisis(Phone game) Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core(PSP) Final Fantasy 7 (PS1, PC, PSN) Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children(movie sequel to Final Fantasy 7 game) Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children Complete(extended edition of the movie and on blu-ray) Final Fantasy 7 Dirge of Cerberus(sequel game(PS2) to Final Fantasy 7 and Advent Children), ^ these are all out now(ACC should be coming out in the states and world soon), most likely the compilation will end with a FF7 remake and/or with FF7 DoC2. As much as I hate a sequel for it, it seems most likely it'll happen. Although I prefer it if the sequel to DoC was an animated movie.} ------------------- _{Welcome to Crisis Core forum} _{Welcome to Bad Company 2} _{God of War 3 official forum community}
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Byzantine The earth was blue, but there was no god Neolithic total posts: 6994 since: Apr 2008	Jun 06, 09 at 7:25am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	quote Final Blade Thanks for missing my post about "I may be biased towards FF7 since It was my FIRST RPG/FF game." And FYI I know all those games, I just stated which you missed AGAIN that I NEVER played them thus can't give a honest opinion . Moonset said everything that needed to be said. Really, i'm just trying to find valid reasons as to why everyone thinks this game is so amazing, because really, it did nothing unique or unprecedented. You're making these claims that aren't even remotely true about it being the first major RPG, the first RPG to gain western attention, the first RPG with character development at it's level, and all these other BS claims that are wholly untrue. It doesn't matter that you didn't play any of the games i mentioned (i don't know how you could have missed them in your life, according to your profile, you're older than i am, and i played them all), the fact remains that they were epics, they were game changers, and they were really all these things you're claiming FF7 to be. I've played the game, i thought it was good, but i don't think it was anything as nearly as amazing as you make it out to be. What is so amazing about this game? i really want to know, i mean It's gameplay was basically a rehash of all the previous Final Fantasy games and it's plot was no more deep or interesting than several previous RPG's, nor did it bring "rpg games" to attention in the west like so many of you claim. How can you go on declaring it's this epic game changer when in fact it did nothing to change RPG gaming whatsoever? I'm not saying it's a bad game, or that it can't be your favorite, or any of those other things. I'm merely trying to illustrate that it's really not as objectively game altering and phenomenal as so many fanboys make it out to be, in any real significant way. ------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Comics
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Final Blade Legendary Seeker total posts: 16841 GameGrep pts: 13817 since: Nov 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 7:35am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	_{Yea, I never mentioned the west or called it a MAJOR RPG game. I never said it was the FIRST game to have a DEEP store or DEEP character development. Now you're just reading what you want to read. I said IT HAD character development and story that was captivating. That's all, those points didn't mean IT WAS THE FIRST, rather it had and why it was critically acclaimed as it was. If you can't get what I mean, then there's no point for me to continue this with you Byz. Meta Score 92(critically Acclaimed)} ------------------- _{Welcome to Crisis Core forum} _{Welcome to Bad Company 2} _{God of War 3 official forum community}
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Moonset Relentless since: Mar 2003	Jun 06, 09 at 7:41am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	It did bring RPGs to the mainstream in the west. Quite frankly, JRPGs were a niche market in the west until after FFVII was released. Honestly, the fact of the matter is that it was really the complete package. You keep saying "well games have had deep story lines before" (no shit, by the way) and "it just rehashed previous games' battle systems" (which it didn't other than using the ATB system), but it brought many great elements together and added the 3D plane to RPGs which was quite simply a massive overhaul. Face it Byz, you're just hating for the hell of it. You haven't substantiated anything you've said so far and you just keep saying "well it didn't do this first" or "well other games have done that too". No shit they did. The difference is that FFVII managed to be the complete package and brought about gameplay and story elements that made it much more powerful and gripping at the time. ------------------- Who's that? The Mastermind.
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Byzantine The earth was blue, but there was no god Neolithic total posts: 6994 since: Apr 2008	Jun 06, 09 at 7:51am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	quote Moonset Face it Byz, you're just hating for the hell of it. You haven't substantiated anything you've said so far and you just keep saying "well it didn't do this first" or "well other games have done that too". No shit they did. The difference is that FFVII managed to be the complete package and brought about gameplay and story elements that made it much more powerful and gripping at the time. I'm not hating, i've said countless times that i like the game just fine and have played several other Final Fantasy games, you're all just making claims that this game is the best ever for reasons that are less than honest. you're simply attacking me as a hater and refuting my very supported and substantiated argument because i'm calling out your beloved game. Phantasy Star 4 was the 5th best selling console game of the Super NES/ Sega Genesis era. I've substantiated everything, Hell, Phantasy Star sold 6 million copies. In comparison, Donkey Kong Country sold only 8 million (an unprecedented number of sells for the era). 6 million, when the average game sold maybe a million if it was lucky, is hardly a niche crowd. That's only one of the RPG's i've mentioned. 6 million is hardly a niche crowd, so please, be at least a little honest. The reality is, Final Fantasy Seven is just another good RPG, it's not a game changer, it's not the first to do anything, it's not even distinctly unique. It was just good, and for many, was the first RPG they experienced (which doesn't mean first ever). Also, Final Blade. You didn't claim those things, but your supporters did. in case you didn't notice, i'm the only one fighting my side of the battle, because i'm the only one both informed and interested enough to tell the truth as it really is. EDIT: We must also remember that Phantasy Star hampered it's own success, and was selling for $70 new, when it's competitor games were selling for half that much. This message was edited by Byzantine on Jun 06 2009. ------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Comics
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Final Blade Legendary Seeker total posts: 16841 GameGrep pts: 13817 since: Nov 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 8:06am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	_{Byz, Wiki isn't definitive, but if you want to use that, then let me quote this:} quote FF7 Reception Final Fantasy VII was both a critical and commercial success, and set several sales records. Within three days of its release in Japan, the game had sold 2.3 million copies.[4] This popularity inspired thousands of retailers in North America to break street dates in September to meet public demand for the title.[54] In the game's debut weekend in North America, it sold 330,000 copies,[55] and had reached sales of 500,000 units in less than three weeks.[56] The momentum built in the game's opening weeks continued for several months; Sony announced the game had sold one million copies on the continent by early December,[57] prompting business analyst Edward Williams from Monness, Crespi, Hardt & Co. to comment, "Sony redefined the role-playing game (RPG) category and expanded the conventional audience with the launch of Final Fantasy VII".[57] Final Fantasy VII has sold over 9.8 million copies worldwide as of December 2005,[58] making it the highest-selling Final Fantasy title.[59] Although Square's announcement that Final Fantasy VII would be produced for Sony rather than Nintendo and that it would not be based on the Final Fantasy SGI demo was initially met with discontent among gamers,[41][40] the game continues to maintain a strong following. It placed second in the "Top 100 Favorite Games of All Time" poll by Japanese magazine Famitsu during March 2006,[60] while users of the video game website GameFAQs voted Final Fantasy VII as the "Best Game Ever"[61] in November 2005, a little more than one year after it won the site's "Best. Game. Ever." tournament in 2004.[62] _{6 million huh? Sounds more like 10 million fans + Again, while wiki isn't definitive since people edit it all the time, I just thought I throw this in here as well.} ------------------- _{Welcome to Crisis Core forum} _{Welcome to Bad Company 2} _{God of War 3 official forum community}
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Byzantine The earth was blue, but there was no god Neolithic total posts: 6994 since: Apr 2008	Jun 06, 09 at 8:10am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	Again, 6 million when it was selling for twice the amount of competitors and was in an era when a game sold a couple hundred thousand copies at most is absolutely incredible. Phantasy Star 4 came out in 1995 in the middle of the Super Nintendo era, and it was on the Sega Genesis which only sold 24 million consoles total. The Sony PlayStation sold 102.5 million consoles 6 million of 24 million is a whole lot bigger piece of the pie than 10 million of 102 million. 25%>9.8% Comparatively, for it's generation, Phantasy Star was a far more successful game, and did all the things you claim FF7 did, long before. And it's only one of a few critically acclaimed RPG's that gained worldwide (even American) recognition. ------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Comics
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SephClone89 Currently Playing: Star Ocean IV true seeker total posts: 1249 since: Dec 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 11:50am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	Okay lets get things straight, FF7 is popular because of its story and characters. Such a story was considered brilliant back then, but these days it feels like a standard RPG. The characters on the other hand were interpreted really good with each character having a connection with one another. All the other games you stated are brilliant in their own way. You cant compare them with FF7 because there not the same genre as FF7.(except Phantasy Star was similar to FF) Lets just agree FF7 is good. ------------------- Come and have fun in the Survival Horror Social forum. You wont regret it.
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Chris717 Resident Neo total posts: 3105 since: Aug 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 11:54am re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	quote Final Blade quote Chris717 quote Final Blade quote Chris717 I just saw it at £7.99, but i have £2.44 in my wallet. So that means i would only have £7.44 with the compulsary £5 top-up. Therefore, i will not buy this game. Sony should let you choose the amount you top-up _{So, you're complaining about the price where places that sells this disc games it's raised to $60-$100 dollars? Sorry but mindboggling.} This isn't worth $60-$100, it's just a digitl copy. And as a person who always never thought JRPG's looked stupid, i am contemplating buying this game. I am only buying it from what i heard. So if Kik36 is wrong, i have wasted £10 for a game i may not like. _{I never said it was worth that much for a digital copy. Read my post I clearly stated "THAT SELLS THIS DISC GAMES FOR $60-$100 in stores. Meaning Ebgames, amazon, ebay...etc} For someone who has never played it before, and is only going off opinions, the price of the original doesn't affect whether i buy it or not. I am only interested in this copy. -------------------
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ShadowGuard To Err is human; to forgive, infrequent Still Seekin' total posts: 3990 since: Apr 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 4:26pm re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	quote Byzantine Again, 6 million when it was selling for twice the amount of competitors and was in an era when a game sold a couple hundred thousand copies at most is absolutely incredible. Phantasy Star 4 came out in 1995 in the middle of the Super Nintendo era, and it was on the Sega Genesis which only sold 24 million consoles total. The Sony PlayStation sold 102.5 million consoles 6 million of 24 million is a whole lot bigger piece of the pie than 10 million of 102 million. 25%>9.8% Comparatively, for it's generation, Phantasy Star was a far more successful game, and did all the things you claim FF7 did, long before. And it's only one of a few critically acclaimed RPG's that gained worldwide (even American) recognition. Dont put percentages in this, now you are just making excuses... People did not want the SEGA Genesis bad enough to play your games. 10 million people were going to get FFVII one way or the other final fantasy - 3.09 million in America I cannot find any of your phantasy star american sales, but I doubt they are that even with Japanese sales. And stop bringing up non RPG games, we are talking about RPGs are getting accepted in the West. If it is not in the RPG genre (Donkey Kong Country) then do not bring it up... I must agree with moonset, you are just being a hater of FFVII like numerous other people for no reason... The facts are on our side Byz, nothing you have stated has been convincing, especially when you bring non-RPG games to the discussion to try and make a point, in which you still failed in... -------------------
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Final Blade Legendary Seeker total posts: 16841 GameGrep pts: 13817 since: Nov 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 4:35pm re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	_{Also, don't bring Wikipedia as a solid fact link to support your point. Sure it's ok for minor things, but Wikipedia get's edited so many times throughout the day, that nothing on that site can be taken 100% accuracy. I only used the FF7 Wiki link cause you used it before. I'll try to find more links maybe from VGchartz about FF7 later.} ------------------- _{Welcome to Crisis Core forum} _{Welcome to Bad Company 2} _{God of War 3 official forum community}
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Extric mad messenger total posts: 281 since: Sep 2006	Jun 06, 09 at 5:01pm re: Final Fantasy VII on PSN
	Wow, why has no one stepped up to help Byz? Everything he's said is right. FFVII is terribly overrated and, as he's pointed out several times, did nothing that wasn't already being done or had already been done. Phantasy Star that was released in 1988 on the Sega Master System was already doing the stuff that FFVII did besides 3D models (which really isn't a fair argument since the technology wasn't really there during those times). While FFVII is a good game, it's not as groundbreaking as people make it out to be. Hell, I don't even think it's one of the better FF games either. I much prefer IV, IX, and X.
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