quote A Definite Product

That's not true. Play the PS2 and Xbox versions. They are still great games. It's the division of labor that's "hurting" EA's Madden series on the 360.

As Cdemon said, "It's too early too tell," if this is the beginnings of monopoly quality.

quote A Definite Product

Valid points, for the most part... but I never said you had to buy it and play it. I was noting that EA Sports as a whole are not playing the "we lack quality because we have a monopoly card." It's one game out of eight.

Why then, are there still features in a game that is pushing 3 years old that still have never made it into Madden?

EA buried the competition because they were sick of being pushed every year to set the bar.

NFL 2K series was Madden's biggest competition. While not as solid in the controls department, it soared above and beyond what Madden has EVER attempted in presentation.

Its first person football mode was cool as hell, and really what Madden should have went with in Superstar mode if they were going to give such shit camera views. In first person mode, the right stick would allow you to turn your head left and right to see the entire field for all players. On Madden, the camera zooms right in on your back, and you cant see a damn thing. The highlight stick prevents any type of camera movement after the snap. They shouldve just stuck with the traditional camera, or at least made it an option.

Superstar mode is infuriating at times due to the shoddy camera.


2K5 had penalties implemented that Madden has yet to even attempt. 5 yard holding, Illegal contact (hands to the face), Illegal touching of forward pass, and Inelligable receiver downfield.

The Challenge mode was infinitely better than Madden has ever been. When you challenge in Madden, the CPU decides what youre challenging.

I want to challenge whether or not the receiver made the catch, but the CPU decides that Im challenging ball spot.

2k5 had an entire list of every possible scenario that could be challenged, and then you picked what you wanted to challenge.


NFL 2k5 had a create a playbook that held over 200 plays. You could create your own formations and defenses as well. Whats more, each formation had its own set of audibles so that you never had to change formation if you didnt want to when you wanted to change the play. Madden has been, and probably always will be constrained to about 8 audibles for the entire game.


So, instead of implementing these things into Madden, EA simply cornered the market. They buried the competition and no longer hear about the things that other games may have that they dont. EA is all thats left.

If thats not playing the monopoly card, I dont know what is. Why has EA refused to implement those aspects of the game into theirs? We see it is possible, as ESPN's game did it to perfection.

EA is more concerned with the gimmick of the year than the basic football stuff, thats why we havent seen the penalties implemented, Challenge mode improved, and playbook/audibles overhauled, and why Madden has absolutely the most STALE presentation ever.



Now. The only thing I'd like you to clarify is... the console isn't even a year old. How has EA been able to develop for two years?

Probably missed on the time, but theyve made two games on the console. If they had the ability to implement an entirely different gameplay mode like we see with Superstar, then they were easily within the parameters of adding in the roster editing, fantasy draft, 2 player co-op, defensive playmaker, etc.... Theres just no excuse. That development time was wasted on a separate mode.

The reason the features are missing again is because EA chose not to add them, not that they didnt have time or had problems with the hardware.

My frustration is with their poor priorities. They chose in the second game to sacrifice key gameplay elements that were missing from the first in order to add a halfassed alternate mode.

Then, I dont know if you saw it, but I did, EA sports had "Making Madden 07" on NFL Network. EA representatives were touting that this Madden would have what its predecessor, Madden 06 did not. They showed numerous clips of the gameplay and went into a spiel about how they had so much more time this time, and were able to get what they wanted into the game.


After seeing that, there wasnt any doubt that I would go ahead and purchase it for 360. With the track record of the second game usually catching up with what the first one didnt have, I figured the show was telling the truth and that this one would be what I wanted. Turned out that it still wasnt complete.

The key words from the show here I guess are "Get what THEY wanted into the game." Its clearly not what I wanted.

quote A Definite Product

Wrong.

Alpha kits for the console weren't even released until June before the launch. It was all beta before that and two years ago those beta dev kits were not available (note: alpha does not mean final).

Why do you think EA came out into public with "we were rushed?" It wasn't because they didn't want to admit Madden '06 was horrid, it was because they didn't have the ability to play with the next-gen technology and learn before having to develop on it.

Most, if not all, of the launch titles were ported from previous builds. Porting is a lot easier than creating a game almost entirely from scratch (which is what Madden '06 was).

quote The Stinger

Probably missed on the time, but theyve made two games on the console...

quote K0nKuzh0n

wtf you mean wrong? im pretty sure you just said I was right. If it was released to them in June BEFORE the launch... than they had it before the public did. I never said anything about 2 years.

And i have already stated I understand they had to rush out madden 06. But I dont understand why they would base the next years version off a game they admit was shitty. I would think they would work extra hard to get it back up to par. But where is their motive? there isn't one because they have no competition!!

quote K0nKuzh0n

i didn't respond directly to stinger, I responded to you who said the consol was not even a year old. therefore I corrected you as to saying they have had the consol well over a year to develop the game. I love how you assume I know nothing about everything, especially when I have yet to say anything false on the topics. Good job though, your staying true to your no supporting evidence moto.

quote brian8258417

well if they can make PDZ, Oblivion and PRG with those alpha and beta kits, EA could have made at least on of these games good

quote A Definite Product

I won't argue with your opinions. And I actually already stated that Madden is what they wanted, so we see on the same level. The thing I don't like about the argument is the amount of pressure people put into the LESS THAN A YEAR TO RELEASE TWO GAMES. How many companies release games this quickly with such high quality? Not many, if any (anymore).

These two Madden games really arent that great. Theyre incomplete. You cant play 2-4 player cooperative, and tons of features are missing in both games. I would much rather as a Madden fan have waited a year and let them put out a complete game as to give me a little here, and a little there, and an alternate mode to make up for all the missing features, making me spend 120 bucks on two games that arent done.

I understand Madden is disappointing as compared to NFL 2k5 and I understand that Madden is a disappointment as compared to it's Playstation and Xbox counter parts, what I don't understand is the argument that they are playing the monopoly card based off of one game in a series and the fact that people are righting the series off because of ignorant, fact-less statements. These are my arguments. They have nothing to do with game play, features, or the like.

Thats just it. We're not talking about just one out of eight. Madden, for ANY system has been subpar to the ESPN series on many levels for several years. The missing penalties, the in-depth presentation, the outstanding instant replay system, Deep playbook creation, and on and on.

These features NEVER made it into ANY Madden since ESPN started doing it. ESPN was the big competition and had everything that Madden didnt.

EA responded NOT by adding these features to their game also, but by locking up the NFL rights so no other games besides theirs could be made using NFL players.

We see the same stale Madden put out every year, with a bit different of a gimmick added each year. Never EA completing their package by completing the penalties, upgrading the challenge system, implementing the playbook creation, none of this.


Madden 2007 is a stand out game as compared to it's predecessor. To argue that is to be a fool. I've played the game. I enjoy it. Sure there are things wrong with it, but they are in no way of a crucifiable offense.

2007 on the 360 is better than 2006, yes. The new running feature, albeit a bit overpowered is cool as well as the lead blocking. HOWEVER, skipping out on the missing features for a second straight game in lieu of those features, along with superstar mode is inexcusable. Its simply another incomplete Madden title. Better than 2006, yeah, but that aint saying a whole helluva lot.

Obviously you enjoy the game or else you wouldn't be POSTIVELY contributing to this forum and you (like many) have discrepancies with it, but as I've said before this is one of eight games released. Your opinions are subject to this one title and most are true, but they are just that... subjective to a single title. And until that changes, I can't say that I agree with you on levels of intent.


I like the game, simply because there isnt anything else. Im certainly not going to spend another 50 for the PS2 edition now that Ive spent 60 for the 360 version. The game does some things really great.

Once the game is COMPLETED, and all the minor little details that have been deemed expendable for alternate modes and features are returned, I will be happy with it.


My basic stance is this. I want EA Sports to live up to their motto. If its in the game, its in the game.

Get the penalties you dont have in there. Get the instant replay system upgraded. Allow us to design our own offensive and defensive schemes. Give us back roster editing. Give us back defensive assignments. Give us back Global Substitutions. Give us defensive playmaker back.

I want the BASIC FOOTBALL PACKAGE to be complete, before they go toying with their next gimmick of the year.

But thats just me. Many people can live without 2-4 player gameplay, and cooperative gameplay. Some people dont care about global subs and defensive assignments. Some say just play the game and shut up.

But Madden has always been the most hardcore realistic sim you could get. For people who want that deep experience, tweaking the rosters, changing a player to a new position, trying to create a new defense, that missing stuff is HUGE.

To see that stuff excluded for something so utterly lame as Superstar mode, thats really disappointing. Maybe some people love that mode, but when Ive played it ive been nothing but infuriated.

I shake my head and wonder why in the name of all that is holy could they have not finished the rest of the game, but they had the time put this lame ass mode in there.

But, we cant always get what we want. Thats my stance, and I dont want to beat a dead horse.

I feel that EA has gone with the gimmick route, instead of completing their football package and living up to their "If its in the game, its in the game" motto.

With Madden it should be like this.

Have one of those guys on the radio that is paid to get all the fine print into the commercial within like 15 seconds to save airtime and money to come on after the EA guy says the first part. It would be great.


EA SPORTS: ITS IN THE GAME.... Trademark Excludes Illegal contact, Defensive Holding, Illegal touching of the forward pass, Ineligible receiver downfield, Specific Instant Replay Challenge options, actual commentary....

And thats on ALL systems. Hell, that list is longer if you go into the plethora of features missing from the 360 versions as well.


Theres so much missing from Madden that ESPN had in their game, theres absolutely no excuse for EA not to have added these simple things into their game. They were the biggest competition EA had, and they crushed them by buying the license. No more competition, no more hearing about what another game has that Madden doesnt for another year.

The fact that EA hasnt improved their base package after buying the license leads me to believe that it was because they wanted to do whatever they wanted with their gimmicks, and not be pressed for the cool stuff that was in another game.

Thats my view, and really nothing can change it. The question still stands, Why has EA not gotten Madden up to speed in the basic football package? Its inexcusable. Immensely so in the case of the 360 versions.

The least they could have done was come out and said, "Hey, this one still isnt the one everyone is looking for. It has some new features, but still a ton of them are not in. You cant play coop, no def. playmaker, or any of those other fun little tweaks like global subs and player editing. No fantasy draft, something like that.

Instead they go on television with a show saying that this Madden is great because they had the time to put everything in that they wanted.

One thing is for certain, I should have known better and its my own fault for losing my 60 bucks, but the next Madden they churn out will be a rental before they get my money. I dont know when their monopoly over the NFL license is due to expire, but it cant be soon enough.

There isnt a doubt in my mind that had EA not bought the license, I would be playing ESPN 2K7 right now, and I wouldnt have ever posted on this board.


But as said, this is simply my view of EA. I feel that they skip out on upgrading the core football package in lieu of bells and whistles. I hate it and theres nothing I can do.

You dont have to agree or anything, thats just my view of EA. I think it was shitty of them to corner the market and force gamers to buy thier game or no game when it comes to NFL licensed current games. When they leave us no option, and then disappoint us, the venom that they receive is well deserved. If youre going to be the only available source for a football game, you damn well better deliver.

In my opinion, and for my money, EA hasnt come close to that.

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