I would assume because the stage is rather large, and Lucarios that DI to the corners live for a long time. In addition to all that damage they have on them, they just get stronger and stronger.

Plus the ceiling is god damn broken.

quote Cloud9157

I would assume because the stage is rather large, and Lucarios that DI to the corners live for a long time. In addition to all that damage they have on them, they just get stronger and stronger.

Plus the ceiling is god damn broken.

and at least from my experience, the layout helps lucario's camp game and helps out his SH game. Plus the river makes it so that he can't get edgehogged on half the stage and helps him survive the meteors he's vulnerable to. Fsmash is pretty broken there too.

lucario on japes is really good against snake. lucario pretty much out camps him and because the ceiling is so high, snake won't be killing till late percents and the fact that lucario just kills with fsmash.

You play mk, it shouldn't matter to you cause you have no bad stages.

quote Steam

quote Veggi

DK's fsmash is longer ranged than Snake's ftilt and DK/Lucario's fsmashes have like the same range. I think Lucario's fsmash has longer range.

I'm pretty sure DK's had longer range...

but the snake could just PS the fsmash or something and he'll probably be in range for the ftilt since fsmash moves luc forward some.

They have like the same range, but Lucario extends his hands a bit and then DK can hit his hands which makes it look like DK's is longer. I think it happens because Lucario's aura has transendent (sp?) priority, so an attack that outranges it will beat it.

Oh yeah DK>Lucario and every other character on Japes too.

Even Falco?

Cause I hate kismet on japes.

I rape every Falco that takes me to Japes (admittedly, I never played a good Falco there, lol) I made some really long list about all the things DK can do on Japes. It's pretty interesting, I think I left it on the AiB DK board somewhere.

quote Veggi

quote Steam

quote Veggi

DK's fsmash is longer ranged than Snake's ftilt and DK/Lucario's fsmashes have like the same range. I think Lucario's fsmash has longer range.

I'm pretty sure DK's had longer range...

but the snake could just PS the fsmash or something and he'll probably be in range for the ftilt since fsmash moves luc forward some.

They have like the same range, but Lucario extends his hands a bit and then DK can hit his hands which makes it look like DK's is longer. I think it happens because Lucario's aura has transendent (sp?) priority, so an attack that outranges it will beat it.

Oh yeah DK>Lucario and every other character on Japes too.

maybe, or maybe it's just that Veggi > Steam...

I don't know about transendent priority on Aura TBH. But Luc has good range and good priority so it's probable...

quote Boxxy

You play mk, it shouldn't matter to you cause you have no bad stages.

Actually I've been using Marth/Samus again lately. Only use MK in teams when in a bind.

I heard someone say Lucario had some moves with that type of priority (other than his aerials because that's just obvious). Has anyone ever clanked with your fsmash? I don't think I've ever seen Lucario's fsmash clank with anything before.

quote Veggi

I heard someone say Lucario had some moves with that type of priority (other than his aerials because that's just obvious). Has anyone ever clanked with your fsmash? I don't think I've ever seen Lucario's fsmash clank with anything before.

I think I've clanked with Fsmash before... But only if screw up my spacing and they're very close together... But if it hits with the aura flame I don't think i've ever clanked.

But Ftilt clanks with just about everything...

So does utilt. I get into clank battles with that thing a lot.

quote Veggi

So does utilt. I get into clank battles with that thing a lot.

It's even more fun in a ditto. I get into a lot of A combo clank wars in luc dittos too.

quote Veggi

I rape every Falco that takes me to Japes (admittedly, I never played a good Falco there, lol) I made some really long list about all the things DK can do on Japes. It's pretty interesting, I think I left it on the AiB DK board somewhere.

Link please? I'm thinking about using japes more often as a counter.

I would like to see this as well. Even though I automatically ban Japes against DK lol

I'll go scrape it up. I also just saw on Smashboards that the reason DK can survive the river so well with his up b is because of the same reason that up b braking works. DK's up b cancels momentum, which is why spamming up b when you get in the water gets him out so fast. Keep in mind that even if you have tap jump off, it ignores the tap jump off command once you go into the water so spamming up b works regardless of whether tap jump is on or not.

Edit: I must have left the list somewhere on the Smashboards DK boards instead of the AiB one, but I did get some information that I collected from various posts I/Bigfoot made when we were discussing it.

-DK can drop off the edge and uair through the platforms.
-DK can approach from both side platforms to the center with lagless up b and he can approach from the pass through platform to the side platforms via lagless up b.
-DK can charge his Donkey Punch on a different platform than his opponent so there's no chance of him getting interrupted.
-It totally sucks to have to approach DK on this stage. He is really good at defending his space.
-You can actually duck and avoid stuff!
-Bair>uair>up tilts>uair through the pass through platform>land on platform>hit him some more is good.
-Meteor people into the water as they go around the platforms.
-You can up b off the center platform to reach the side platform's edges.
-You can hold down right before you grab an edge and you can travel under the platform and grab the edge on the other side, yeah, DK's horizontal recovery is that sick.
-You can stage spike people normally on the left platform and only DK makes it back because he hits the water first
-Just cargo Ike into the water. Lol.
-When you cargo someone into the water, you hit the water first, and both of you travel at the same speed. So you can actually meteor smash people just like on Delfino, it's amazing. The water actually flashes orange when it happens.

-On the platforms you can use the headbutt boost to trap people in the ground traveling from both the center platform to the outside ones and from the outside ones the the center platform. From boosting off the center platform, you can jump up and Giant Punch them, seriously.

-If you cargo someone, you can jump to the boundary and cargo down throw them into the blast zone.

-After you stage spike someone while standing on the center platform and cargo down throwing to the outside ones, once they hit the water you can ffdair them.

(Bigfoot)
- downb covers most of the central platform
- if you land a downb on the platform, it's a free tech chase on the above platform, usmash works best
- the central platform is very good for tech chasing, dthrow at low percents (before cargo kills) will give you a free special of your choice (you need to read right, but it's not hard)
- if you cargo dthrow multi jump characters with bad air movement under platforms (the 3 kirby characters and pit) and it does not spike, you can land a fsmash
- downsmash stage spikes anyone below the platform, including the central platform
- it is impossible to camp dk on this stage, go low and up around the stage, shark uairs through the platform till they have to leave

Beyond this, the important things to remember are: The Klap Trap is in between the center and right platform every time that "7" is the last number on the clock. It runs on a ten second cycle.

You can stage spike people people by standing on the center (main) platform and cargo dthrowing them under the left platform. It stage spikes them and bounces them into the water which auto KO's them. If they tech (which no one will unless they've seen this trick before), you can just fsmash after you do the dthrow. The fsmash will hit them even if they tech.

There is an AT that gives DK super armor all the way through his up b. To perform it you have to transfer from a grounded to an aerial up b during DK's super armor frames. It's possible to use it repeatedly on this stage.

When using DK's up b braking, just fall into the water off screen so no one can punish you, you can also use the river to travel/approach, which is pretty fun, but just make sure that the klap trap doesn't get in the way.

This message was edited by Veggi on Oct 05 2009.

This message was edited by Veggi on Oct 05 2009.