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MisterGolyadkin
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since: Feb 2009
Feb 16, 09 at 12:07am
re: Racism?

I have said above, if this was the first RE game and it was focusing on the mijinis being black savages then I would say there was more of a case for concern. But they are doing nothing here that wasn't done in RE 4. And the fact that it was done in RE 4 must show you that they don't consider black people to be an exclusive savage tribe, the virus has just shifted from one continent to another.

And as the person above said. The real villains are the evil (white) pharmaceutical company umbrella/tricel for using these people in inhumane ways.

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Miss Razz
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Miss Razz's profileNeoPM Miss Razz
since: Sep 2003
Feb 16, 09 at 1:20am
re: Racism?

I'll quote IGN here ...

quote
There are moments that some will never connect with racism, but that others will see as clear use of racist iconography.

I don't begrudge anyone who finds the imagery in RE5 offensive. But I don't believe that vilifying Capcom for its artistic vision is appropriate. This controversy illustrates that race relations remain a major issue in America and Europe. Electing an African-American President doesn't suddenly wipe away the past few centuries of prejudice, nor does it create a level playing field for blacks in this country.
Honestly, there's nothing wrong with finding the game racist. Just like there's nothing wrong with not seeing the racism at all. But it isn't fair to critisize people for their opinions of the game, and to say they "aren't RE fans" just because they do/don't see the game as racist.
It's even more ridiculous to berate each other for having different opinions because we're all in the same boat - None of us have played the game, or seen the scenes that have set game sites off. We can only go by what we've been told, or by what we've seen in the trailers/demo. We're all going to have different opinions now, and we're all going to have different opinions once we play the game.


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Mario_1
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Feb 16, 09 at 1:21am
re: Racism?

1st of all, anyone who says they're zombies is wrong. They're parasite infectees.

2nd of all, if black people get infected and turn "evil" and have to be fought, then so be it. Why should they get any special treatment? Every race is equally vulnerable to the parasite. Ignore the complaints, I say. If ya direct your work of fiction a certain way, then allow it to be swerved because of interference from the real world, then the fourth wall is pretty much broken. And nothin' is worth that.


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falcowned992
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Feb 16, 09 at 1:39am
re: Racism?

quote Tiger of Wu
Maybe if you took it in the right context it would. I never meant to say the past doesn't matter, I meant it doesn't have any relevance and doesn't matter to this game. This game is based upon WHITE people creating a virus that infects INNOCENT and CALM black people. There's a cut-scene at the start of the game with Chris in an African village with normal Africans who treat him like they do every other person before the zombie shit for *bleep*s sake.

Just get over stuff that happened many years ago and stop acting like Capcom are trying to say blacks are primitive. It's completely and utterly imbecilic to think that.
You are once again looking at the gamer's context. You do not realize that people will look at this from another viewpoint. Yes, in the game they are infected by parasites and are being controlled. The point I'm trying to make is that it's still racist. You know why? Because it's homage to 1920s Africa in a certain view, the view that you can't seem to see. Sure, it's not 100% racist because Capcom isn't intending to portray black people like that, but that's how some people, including myself, will look at it. Saying it's not completely racist is justifiable, saying it is in no way racist is absurd.



quote Tiger of Wu
Also, yes Spanish people do have the same history as blacks. Spanish people were enslaved by the British and suffered the EXACT same shit as Africans, including being thought of as primitive savages, the only difference is that it wasn't made into as much of a big deal. Learn about something before you preach it.
Spainish people colonized America last I checked. Spain was a powerful country last I checked. Spanish people didn't get lyched or things like that last within the last 2 centuries last I checked. Yes, Spanish people have been enslaved and all those bad things. But Africans got it much worse, and even more recently. Tell me the stereotypes of Spanish people today and compare that to the stereotypes of Black people now ex savages/gangsters/criminals. Saying Spainsh people have it as bad as blacks is beyond absurd, and I won't believe you until you show me in the media an example of a negative image for Spainyards, not including hispanics.

realmofthewolf, I told you I disagree with you. You say that it doesn't matter that they're black, because they're zombies. I'm not saying that you can't have black zombies at all, I'm saying that putting the setting in Africa, making all of the Africans into zombies and them being hostile, and having a white man kill them all is racist because of the history there.


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y is ike no t on top?? he can ko u wit his front attack and his b attack
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Tiger of Wu
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Feb 16, 09 at 2:12am
re: Racism?

quote falcowned992
Yet I haven't seen you one time acknowledge the scene an the beginning with the sack.
They are beating a Zombie in that sack...

If something tries to eat your face and you manage to get it in a sack, then you obviously are going to beat it to death before it can get a chance to break free and twist your nipples/rip your head off. As for the menacing looks: if you were in a village that had recently been infested by zombies, wouldn't you be cautious of ANYONE considering they might want to eat your head?

Anything else before I delete the existence of this thread from my memory?

This message was edited by supreme kai(moderator) on Feb 17 2009.


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falcowned992
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Feb 16, 09 at 2:20am
re: Racism?

They were not beating a zombie in that sack, they were beating some villager or animal, like with the lady at the cabin in the beginning of Re4.


quote Tiger of Wu
As for the menacing looks: if you were in a village that had recently been infested by zombies, wouldn't you be cautious of ANYONE considering they might want to eat your head?
They were giving menacing looks to Chris despite them not being infested, and I think it's obvious where that has led. And I'm pretty sure Chris didn't know they were zombies before they started to attack him, as he was suprised.


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y is ike no t on top?? he can ko u wit his front attack and his b attack
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realmofthewolf
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Feb 16, 09 at 2:23am
re: Racism?

quote falcowned992
They were not beating a zombie in that sack, they were beating some villager or animal, like with the lady at the cabin in the beginning of Re4.


quote Tiger of Wu
As for the menacing looks: if you were in a village that had recently been infested by zombies, wouldn't you be cautious of ANYONE considering they might want to eat your head?
They were giving menacing looks to Chris despite them not being infested, and I think it's obvious where that has led. And I'm pretty sure Chris didn't know they were zombies before they started to attack him, as he was suprised.
How can you distinguish between a villager and a infected villager when there in the sack??? And id be suspicious of outsiders in that situation
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Miss Razz
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Miss Razz's profileNeoPM Miss Razz
since: Sep 2003
Feb 16, 09 at 2:25am
re: Racism?

It's never shown what's in the bag. It could be a zombie, it could be a human, it could be an animal. Either one is entirely possible.

As for the "staring menacingly" thing... I don't see a big deal over that. If I were living in a remote and dangerous North African village, I'd glare at anything that was foreign and unfamiliar too.

quote realmofthewolf
Wasnt it ignorance that started the racism thing ???YES!!!
Was it ignorance that continued the racism thing? No. The people who are pointing out the racism issues are gamers who write for gaming sites who have played more of RE5 than any of us here have.



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falcowned992
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since: Oct 2008
Feb 16, 09 at 2:27am
re: Racism?

I'm pretty sure that if he was infected, they wouldn't have been able to get him in that sack because he'd infect them. And an outsider would be the first person I would look to for help in that situation.

Nevertheless, I enjoy your attempt at applying comedy to a rather serious topic. It was my first laugh of the day.

edit: you beat me again...


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y is ike no t on top?? he can ko u wit his front attack and his b attack
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Shane
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since: Jan 2006
Feb 16, 09 at 2:28am
re: Racism?

I'd imagine they put him in a sack because his face turned into one of those vagina-looking things.



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Wgang
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Feb 16, 09 at 3:58pm
re: Racism?

quote Gothic Girl
Sure. I'll scrounge up some of the more recent complaints about the game. Some gaming sites have reviewed the first 3 chapters of RE5, and the first and third chapter seems to be where most of the complaints come from...

quote
One of the first things you see in the game, seconds after taking control of Chris Redfield, is a gang of African men brutally beating something in a sack. Animal or human, it's never revealed, but these are not infected Majini. There are no red bloodshot eyes. These are ordinary Africans, who stop and stare at you menacingly as you approach. Since the Majini are not undead corpses, and are capable of driving vehicles, handling weapons and even using guns, it makes the line between the infected monsters and African civilians uncomfortably vague. Where Africans are concerned, the game seems to be suggesting, bloodthirsty savagery just comes with the territory.

Later on, there's a cut-scene of a white blonde woman being dragged off, screaming, by black men. When you attempt to rescue her, she's been turned and must be killed. If this has any relevance to the story it's not apparent in the first three chapters, and it plays so blatantly into the old clichés of the dangerous "dark continent" and the primitive lust of its inhabitants that you'd swear the game was written in the 1920s. That Sheva neatly fits the approved Hollywood model of the light-skinned black heroine, and talks more like Lara Croft than her thickly-accented foes, merely compounds the problem rather than easing it. There are even more outrageous and outdated images to be found later in the game, stuff that I was honestly surprised to see in 2009, but Capcom has specifically asked that details of these scenes remain under wraps for now, whether for these reasons we don't know.

There will be plenty of people who refuse to see anything untoward in this material. "It wasn't racist when the enemies were Spanish in Resident Evil 4," goes the argument, but then the Spanish don't have the baggage of being stereotyped as subhuman animals for the past two hundred years. It's perfectly possible to use Africa as the setting for a powerful and troubling horror story, but when you're applying the concept of people being turned into savage monsters onto an actual ethnic group that has long been misrepresented as savage monsters, it's hard to see how elements of race weren't going to be a factor.

All it will take is for one mainstream media outlet to show the heroic Chris Redfield stamping on the face of a black woman, splattering her skull, and the controversy over Manhunt 2 will seem quaint by comparison.

source
quote
I looked at the "Resident Evil 5 trailer and I was like, "Wow, clearly no one black worked on this game." Because I wonder, and I haven't sort of really dug into it that much, but I wonder what sort of advice Capcom gave them. There was a lot of imagery in that trailer that dovetailed with classic racist imagery.

There was stuff like even before the point in the trailer where the crowd turned into zombies. They're hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who's coming to help the people. It's like they're all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It's not even like one cute African — or Haitian or Caribbean — child could be saved. They're all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed. And given the history, given the not so distant post-colonial history, you would say to yourself, why would you uncritically put up those images?

It's not as simple as saying, "Oh, they shot Spanish zombies in 'Resident Evil 4,' and now 'black zombies and that's why people are getting upset." The imagery is not the same. It doesn't carry the same history, it doesn't carry the same weight. I don't know how to explain it more clearly than that.

If it had been me in that situation, I wouldn't have put out a trailer like that. I think it's very easy to misunderstand what that game is about based on that trailer.

source
quote
There are moments that some will never connect with racism, but that others will see as clear use of racist iconography.

The game begins with Chris Redfield walking through an African village that appears uninfected. He sees some men kicking something in a sack. The implication is that even before the infection, these are bad people. If RE5 were set on another continent and these characters had white skin, no one would give it a second thought. Typical "village full of bad guys" gaming clich?. But these characters are black. And as such the imagery can be perceived to have racist undertones.

Later, there is a cutscene depicting a white woman being dragged into a house by an infected black man. In its recent hands-on, Eurogamer criticized this moment in particular for playing into traditional racist fear-mongering. To propagate fear of blacks from the time of slavery and through the Civil Rights movement in the United States, white society was warned that big black men are coming for your daughters.

Do these images and the fact that the core gameplay has you shooting black men and women make RE5 racist? The answer is going to vary greatly from one person to the next and, perhaps more significantly, from one region to the next. In Japan, for example, it's unlikely that the events depicted in Resident Evil 5 will be viewed as racist in any way. Japan and other Asian nations never experienced centuries of racist oppression against blacks. In Europe and America, where racism continues to be an issue to this day, and where, less than two centuries ago, slavery was legal, the imagery will likely resonate more substantially.

source
quote
It's easy to see why some will construe this game as racist. It may be easy to forget that these people are, in fact, infected with a parasite that alters their behavior. For the most part, the enemies in RE5 move and react in the same way as the enemies of RE4 -- the only difference? The color of their skin. The bodies of the infected disintegrate, and many will have plagas burst out of them.

Regardless, the imagery can be disturbing. It's unlikely that Capcom has any malicious intent by choosing Africa as the location for RE5.
Although most of the enemies in the game are black, there are a number of strong black heroes in the game as well.

source
quote
The scenes of something being beaten in a sack or of a blond woman being dragged off by black men aren't even regarded as the worst, or most-outdated in the game either. There are, reportedly, even more outrageous things displayed later in the game but Capcom has asked these be kept under wraps for the time being.

Villains and enemies in video games obviously come in all shapes, sizes, creeds, and religions. And thats fine because it mimics real life where everyone is capable of doing bad things. But by showing ordinary black people doing unspeakable things when they aren't necessarily the game's bad guys does seem a little beyond the realms of what is acceptable in this enlightened day and age.

Could Capcom be aiming for controversy in order to help sales?

source

Despite all this, I don't think the game is racist. Capcom aren't trying to make gamers start hating all black people, and I highly doubt they think all black people live and act like this.
I think that alot of the critics are mistaking Capcom's view of black people with Capcom's view of North Africa. There have been plenty of good black characters in RE who are portrayed like any other RE character ... Same goes for other Capcom franchises. Sure, some of the racial imagery in RE5 might be a little questionable (or maybe even disturbing), but the unfortunate truth is that there are many people in North Africa who live like that. It's a Third World country, so of course we're going to see people hunting, scavenging, attacking enemies, and "glaring menacingly" at anything that is foreign or unfamiliar. These peoples' lives revolve around survival.

Though maybe Capcom could have been a little more discreet with the types of scenes they show in the game (and in the trailers). Black majini overpowering and "impregnating" a young white woman, a white man smashing black people's skulls, uninfected black men bashing something to death in a bag... Sure, it sets the scene of an imporverish African shanty town slowly being taken over by the virus, but maybe it wasn't wise for Capcom to include some of those more 'controversial' scenes in the game? Especially since there are apparently so many of them, and especially since they apparently aren't even relevant to the game's plot?

Meh. In the end I don't care. The game could end up being the most racist thing in the world, but all I'll be thinking is "when the hell do I get to kick the crap out of Wesker?"

-

its not like I'm not going to get this game cause of the racism issue, i am and i fully expect it to be amazing. But, still after all of that, people still want to say that Capcom isn't suggesting or hinting that all Africans or at least north Africans are savages, even before the virus. in resident evil 4 the only thing you saw was infected people, so you have no idea what they were like before hand, but in this game you see infected and non-infected and there acting very similar.

my favorite argument is when people say "well we shot white zombies before and know one cared and now that there black people are calling it racism", i could be wrong but weren't you shooting white zombies with white people.......... wait i know what your going to say "so what now we cant make a game were a white man shoots black people cause its racist". NO i wont have a problem with it under the circumstances (and i still kinda don't) but this game make it seem like every black person there (even before the infection) was a monster and the only one there with any humanity is the one lone, heroic, white guy. now i know a lot of people are going to get mad cause I'm talking about how some (not all) black people feel about this and not saying things like "so what if all the black people there are savages and the white guy has to kill them all". but i feel like this thread is full of people who only care about there side and have no problem with the fact that there are people out there that are uncomfortable.


Just to let you know this isn't a big problem with me personally i don't care what the game depicts about blacks cause i know how i act and its not like that, and like i said before i thing its going to be a great game and i cant wait i just had to say something.

EDIT: BTW it is just a game so maybe we shouldn't blow this situation up to much (if at all)


This message was edited by Wgang on Feb 16 2009.
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realmofthewolf
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Feb 16, 09 at 5:08pm
re: Racism?

Issues like racism always have strong opinions from everyone. I dont see how the hell its racist because there are tribes like that living in africa at this time. Some dont like outsiders and will be cautious and act tough or scary because it will make the outsider think twice about attacking if thats indeed the motive. THAT IS TRUE . This happens worse in our society because they flash GUNS/KNIVES and this include white and black people. Its natural nothing to do with the so called dark continent its nature.INTIMIDATION. Many animals do this.

Now many tribes in africa will not have the same veiws on stuff like mental illness or disease and may believe it to the work of demons and witchs and what not so would be a little alarmed and panicky and beat the shit outta whateva was in the sack. A Infected person more than likely. The white woman getting dragged away is the only questionable thing in the clip.

quote
Villains and enemies in video games obviously come in all shapes, sizes, creeds, and religions. And thats fine because it mimics real life where everyone is capable of doing bad things. But by showing ordinary black people doing unspeakable things when they aren't necessarily the game's bad guys does seem a little beyond the realms of what is acceptable in this enlightened day and age

Could Capcom be aiming for controversy in order to help sales?
Isnt the person contradicting himself totally in this statement?? Yes all people are capeable of doing bad things but it was fine until it showed ordinary black people starting to do these unspeakable acts?? All enemys in every game were ordinary apart from some super bosses ect.

Also enlightned day and age i dont think so were still stuck in the past looping over and over Racism,Sexism,Homophobia. Were kidding ourselves calling ourselves enlightened. Until we can have a gay black woman have the right to DIE in video games and be evil for no bloody reason were not reaching enlightenment.

If the shoe was on the other foot would it be okay for a black man to slaughter the white man because well hes a slaver and deserves it. Society hasnt moved on from racism.

Also whats the first stereotype you will get from a white person of this day and age on black people.

THUGS or DRUG DEALERS. The generation that veiwed them as savages are dieing out so i guess resident evil 5 should of waited till then.

Your argument rely on social stigma of a past generation that seem to ignore the fact that there are tribes that live like that STILL apart from dragging white women away. Beating the sack could be a animal since well there hunters and its easyier to kill lets say a boar with it netted or sacked. And You continue to say inhuman savages when they do live in the sort of way. These tribes are very shy and tend to stay away from that. D


Ignorance has caused and will continue racism until the end of it.

Until E.T decides he wants us dead and invades racism will not cease.

(No i dont believe in martians,ufos and what not

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john_4
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Feb 16, 09 at 6:56pm
re: Racism?

quote InFeeDel
I was wondering what anyone thought about the fact that Capcom situated RE5 in Africa, and it appears that most of the zombies are black. Does anyone think it's racism? Also, controversies have popped up on random web info sites, so it may be worth discussing here.
Adding 'serious disscussion only' as a subtitle doesnt change the fact this is a micky mouse topic. No its not racist, if its set in Africa it is bound to be full of black zombies, maybe people would prefer it if they wrote an Africa invasion happened and white people drove all the blacks out and then got infected, that way they would be white and for some gay reason there would be no hint of racism.

--

KAIEDIT : No but it changes the fact that when someone tries turning this in to an unstructured, unruly Micky Mouse topic; they're on their Final Warning.

This message was edited by supreme kai(moderator) on Feb 17 2009.
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Wgang
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Feb 16, 09 at 7:08pm
re: Racism?

quote realmofthewolf
If the shoe was on the other foot would it be okay for a black man to slaughter the white man because well hes a slaver and deserves it. Society hasnt moved on from racism.
i kind of agree with you and i kinda don't in a way we have moved on in the scene that we still talk to white people and have good relationships with them but we haven't moved on in the scene that if just a touch of race problems comes up (like this game) we wont hesitate to bring up the past. and i hate it when people say thing like it didn't happen to you get over it when it (not slavery but racism)happen happened to our family like grandparent its easy for some people to ignore it cause they don't have to hear about there grandparents tell terrible stories of what they have see and what happened to them .



quote realmofthewolf
Your argument rely on social stigma of a past generation that seem to ignore the fact that there are tribes that live like that STILL apart from dragging white women away. Beating the sack could be a animal since well there hunters and its easier to kill lets say a boar with it netted or sacked. And You continue to say inhuman savages when they do live in the sort of way. These tribes are very shy and tend to stay away from that. D


that is a very good point and i never said that there aren't tribes like that i just don't like how they tied it in with things like the woman being dragged off, and i hope that's the only seen like that but i do thing there maybe more like it.

and i don't really care about them staring menacingly at Chris everyone stares at the new guy.



i hope no one draws the wrong conclusion about me case i don't want to stir this up and like i said i have no problem with the game and am very much looking forward to it, just saying the problems I've heard and can understand why people would have this problem, so to the people how don't understand i just wanted to make it a little more real to them. unfortunate explaining something like this to people how already don't care is like describing colors to a blind person so i give up
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Mario_1
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Feb 16, 09 at 7:37pm
re: Racism?

quote Gothic Girl
Was it ignorance that continued the racism thing? No. The people who are pointing out the racism issues are gamers who write for gaming sites who have played more of RE5 than any of us here have.
They could've played a million hours' worth of that game, for all that's worth. It doesn't change the fact (inb4 someone gives me "opinion" bullcrap) that it is still a stupid and ignorant conclusion. Unless they happened to see some really bad stuff that we don't know about yet.
Those people obviously aren't experts on racism issues and whatnot, because if they had a shred of common sense regarding that subject, they would have agreed with me.

Anyone who claims there's racism here is just beating against the wall of reality in vain.


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