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 Topic: Bored of GTA Concept
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 Chief99Stick To Your Guns
true seeker    total posts: 1131 since: Sep 2003 |
 May 19, 08 at 11:37pm |
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I know what you mean Chiro.
Games today are not games. A video game is mario kart. GTA 4 is a simulation of real life. not a game. ------------------- 
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Funk01 ultra seeker
 total posts: 1503 since: Oct 2002 |
 May 19, 08 at 11:54pm |
quote ChiroVetteChiro, I'm your age and I still like the realism, but again, thats me. I'm still on the first island, haven't found much time to play, but I love the storyline so far. You can tell that they are trying to build the characters more than in past games. I'm not a "gamer" so I usually enjoy the storyline more than the gameplay. After hearing all these comments, I'm pretty sure they will move closer back to "non-realism", but hopefully not too far back. | |
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aphex Resident Neo
  since: Jul 2007 |
May 20, 08 at 12:05am |
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The realism is an interesting take on games but its just boring. I miss driving super fast and not have to worry about spinning out of control. Oh well, even though driving is a big factor in Grand Theft Auto games, I can live with a little bit more realistic driving.
I posted this in the GD but I think it would be better suited here. I think GTA IV is so repetitive. I mean, I know its a GTA game but every missions is so much of the same thing; drive to kill some guy cause he owes ____ money, guy gets in car and you have to chase him down or we just have some gunfight with plenty and collect diamonds/money/drugs. I just found it really boring doing all of these missions when theres little variety. Don't get me wrong, I loved the missions like 3 Leaf Clover, and the one where you 'help' Derricks drinking buddy out of jail which brought something different to the game but I noticed these didn't happen too often. I'm probably just nitpicking but theres my two cents about GTA IV's missions and such. In San Andreas when I was bored of doing missions I could work out and do all the little extras thing that weren't necessary but fun to have. In GTA IV I can go hang with friends which feels more like a chore. After doing each of the activities then it isn't that much fun. I would've loved to have been able to go the gym and make Niko incredibly buff, or see the different haircuts he could have. Stuff like that made it fun all around rather then the tedious -pick up Roman, go to club, drive him home- type of side missions. I think they should cut back on the realism. If we wanted realism we'd go outside and actually do realistic things. Its a game, it shouldn't be that realistic. Don't make it so its unbelievable unrealistic but rather a touch of realism while still maintaining the fun factor we encountered in previous Grand Theft Auto games. I don't know, I'm enjoying GTA IV but still wish they would've done things differently. | |
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The Stinger How tall is this thing?
Neolithic  total posts: 6735 since: Mar 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 3:38am |
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Ive adapted to the driving now, and with the realistic damage to the cars and things, I find myself taking much better care of my cars in this game than in previous ones. There is a good deal of satisfaction in escaping the police and still having your Turismo looking like it just came off the showroom floor.
The new physics system for the people is awesome. The whole skeletal mapping stuff that they did (euphoria engine I believe) makes it so you could hit a pedestrian in a car going the same speed ten times, and ten times over you would get a different animation from the last. I love it. The main boost to the realism I find is that the rampages you go on are just not really much fun. Fire on a police officer and its automatic 3 stars, tons of cops come after you and rip you to pieces. Theres no army to show up to stop you in their tanks and barracks trucks, its just pretty much every cop in the city is on you and most times youre killed before you can get anywhere and any sort of fun to be had by going on a rampage through Liberty City is quickly sucked out. Its not like R* to bend under pressure from the bad press about their games, but I really think the game was made this way so that when you do go on a rampage like that, they want to show that you most likely wont get away with it. All this crap about GTA being a "training simulation for murder" is ridiculous. I find it funny however, that out of the Millions and Millions of copies of Grand theft auto sold all over the world, they can only come up with 3-4 cases where someone blamed a GTA game for going on a murder spree. It couldnt be that these were just troubled people anyway, and had GTA not been there, something else would have been blamed. Seems to me that if this game were such a great trainer and corrupter of impressionable youth, the world would be tearing itself apart by now. All this BS about games causing violence is just another exploitation of a loophole brought out by scumbag defense attorneys to use as a means of getting their client out of taking responsibility for their actions. They spew this garbage, and then "troubled Teen Joe" watching all this unfold through the news and internet decides one day that he's gonna shoot up his school and knows theres a chance he might get out of taking responsibility for his actions by blaming it on a videogame. I wasnt in control. The game made me do it. If I hadnt played it, I never would have gone out and killed innocent people. Dumbest thing I ever heard. | |
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tspat11 just getting started!
total posts: 114 since: May 2008 |
May 20, 08 at 3:44am |
quote ChiroVetteA very interesting theory and the more i think about it the more sense it makes. Only time will tell if the new fan base will support them as us old farts once did? By the way i'm in my mid 40's and still enjoy relaxing to a fun video game. | |
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The Stinger How tall is this thing?
Neolithic total posts: 6735 since: Mar 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 3:55am |
quote ChiroVette | |
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ChiroVette (babysitter)
(moderator) Action and Arcade [XBOX360] GTA Social Forum Grand Theft Auto IV [PS3] Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas [PS2] Writer's Lounge    total posts: 33573 since: Mar 2002 |
 May 20, 08 at 4:13am |
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Exactly. I went through an entire campaign from 0 to 100%, and after trying the rampaging thing a few times and seeing the new physics of it, I abandoned it. The thing about the removal of the ammo cap ties into this point in that, truth be told, who cares? lol I mean, so they removed the ammo cap? Once I was done getting 100% I had no desire to go back into that save and "mess around". In that sense, it reminds me of the Getaway. At the end of the storyline in The Getaway, you unlocked "Free Roam", but big deal, there was nothing to do.
When I finished GTA IV at 100% I felt like there was nothing to do, no reason to go back on that same save. Hahahaha oh wait, I have this insatiable craving to call up Alex again and play darts with her as she criticizes my clothes and car. I have enough money to LOAD up on ammo, but who cares? What the hell am I going to do with it? Maybe I can do another Brucie race? Oh wait, I really don't like the driving. lol Thanksfully his races were so damn EASY that I passed all 9 my first try and wasn't forced to play them again. I could play Qu3BED again and try to beat my high score. Nah, I think Tetris on my cell phone holds more appeal. I could go on a rampage for several hours holding the police at bay and...oh wait, not really. Unless I crawl into a dead end room with only one entrance or a roof that the cops can't get onto, the rampage will be over before it gets started. Truth be told, going online is fun, but while I win more races than I lose, I still don't like the driving. I can drive pretty well too, I just hate cajoling and babying my car to stay on the road rather than ending up spinning out into a mess. I do have fun playing Team Slayer...oh wait, lol that's Halo. Well, the GTA IV equivalent is a lot of fun. I have to admit that the multiplayer in this game is a blast. Still, Liberty City feels strangely EMPTY once you have 100% completion. No other GTA City gave me that desolate and empty feeling. I could boot up a 100% save in SA, VC, III, LCS or VCS and literally lose myself and many hours just "messing around". My solution to this dilemma? I booted up the 360 version of GTA IV after getting 100% on the PS3 and I will do it all over again. This time, just like on the PS3, I will steadfastly avoid ALL contact with the police except in those missions where the game forces me to engage them. I will look both ways before crossing the street, because that's what you have to do now. I will plod along tapping X jogging instead of running. I will enjoy the beautiful scenery and awesome missions like a good little gamer, because almighty Rockstar has said, "We are giving you realism and YOU'RE GONNA LIKE IT! If you don't believe us, just ask all the pro reviewers who all gave the game a 10/10!" lol Okay, a lot of that post was more tongue-in-cheek intermingled with frustration, but I had fun writing it nonetheless.  -------------------  It's official. I have truly become a babysitter on Neo. Redemption, I want my $7.00 an hour! 
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The Stinger How tall is this thing?
Neolithic total posts: 6735 since: Mar 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 4:41am |
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Definately at 100% there really isnt jack to do in the city offline. For gamers without broadband access, they really got gypped on this one.
While I like the improvements made and feel that this is a solid game, I think this game could have been made by R* under a completely different title and would have been much more well received by the public. It never really felt like Grand Theft Auto. You remove the Radio stations and city name and this could be an entirely different game altogether. Another sandbox title similar to GTA, but not GTA. No tanks or military No Ambulance/Fire/Pizza missions Huge upgrade in difficulty dealing with police Revamped wanted system with the hotzone on the map Completely reworked "vigilante" missions Reworked Driving Physics Extremely limited Character Appearance modification Cover System No car modifications No purchasing of new safehouses or businesses I mean, you could take these differences here and name it something different and people would see a game SIMILAR to GTA like Saints Row was. Open environment, missions, police, but completely different than how GTA handled these elements. Grand Theft Auto SA really set the bar for what to expect from a GTA title in terms of scope and sheer amount of things to do. This game focused more on being like an interactive movie with a lot less stuff on the side to keep the game fresh and fun aside from doing the main story. Graphicly, and Physics enginewise this game is a huge step forward, but in terms of total content this game was a couple steps backward. | |
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ChiroVette (babysitter)
(moderator) Action and Arcade [XBOX360] GTA Social Forum Grand Theft Auto IV [PS3] Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas [PS2] Writer's Lounge total posts: 33573 since: Mar 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 5:02am |
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You know what I have been wondering about the last week or so? If Rockstar got spooked by the clones. What do I mean? Well, last gen of gaming, everyone and their brother came out with a game that supposedly promised to be a "GTA-Killer". you remember this, right? The very first was The Getaway. I remember Team Soho ranting and raving to everyone who would listen in the media, about how The Getaway was going to be "like GTA only better!" They went on and on about how GTA was a great title, but the graphics in their coming Getaway title would be better! They promised a far more in depth storyline. They also promised a great deal more of what I will from now on refer to as the "R-Word". (lol That's realism for those of you in the cheap seats!).
Well, needless to say, The Getaway, while embraced by a tiny minority, was overall a dismal flop. It was received with heavy criticism and GTA obviously stayed on top, particularly since Vice City came out a few months later, driving the final nail into The Getaway's proverbial coffin. Then, of course, there were the various Driver and True Crime games, each in it's own time hailed as "a GTA killer"...well that is until they were released and we all realized that the only thing they killed was the reputation of their respective developers. What was the mantra of EVERY SINGLE one of these games, from Parallel Lines to Streets of NY; from Godfather to Scarface? The answer was that, using different words, EVERY single developer of their respective GTA-Clone promised more what? That's right! More of the R-Word! Each and every one of these upstart GTA killers was trumpeted as "Like GTA only with a movie like story and MORE of the R-word!" Does this sound familiar? Could it be that Rockstar lost site of something along the way and got "spooked by the clones"? By the way, I will say this much for GTA IV: It blew the doors off of all of the so called GTA killers. It actually delivered, at least in part, what all the clones promised but couldn't. It delivered and overall superb game, but a GTA game? Back to my original point. All of this has made me wonder if Rockstar, who really had no competition, except from Saint's Row, decided to outdo the copycats and beat up on the clones? I mean, doesn't it seem interesting that GTA fans universally rejected all the clones of last generation because THEY WERE TOO REALISTIC, or tried to be, and, voila! GTA becomes realistic too. Could this be Rockstar thumbing their noses at the developers of the clones and saying, "We can copy you copying us and do it better than you ever could!"? because if that's what they were trying to do, they did it. While I hate realism in games, strangely enough, I really like GTA IV. Regardless of the fact that it will never hold a place in my heart like the past GTA games, it is still one helluva game overall. But I keep coming back to the same damned question over and over and over again: Why would Rockstar copy all the developers who failed? Could it be some kind of sick vanity? Perhaps Rockstar needed to show these upstart copycats that while they failed at making a realistic sandbox game, that it could still be done. Just something I thought might make for good food for thought. Not saying I am right here, just throwing it out there for debate. ------------------- It's official. I have truly become a babysitter on Neo. Redemption, I want my $7.00 an hour!
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DragoniteBallZ I DON'T N00BTUBE, I PROTUBE!
(moderator) Halo 3 [XBOX360] RPG/Adventure [XBOX360] Sports and Racing [XBOX360] Strategy, Classic & Puzzle [XBOX360]   since: Jan 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 5:20am |
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Saint's Row was different though. In fact, I believe Saint's Row still beats GTA in some ways. Mainly in customization and in the targeting system. Although they brought customization to the point where the main character was practically faceless in spirit and could be anyone.
What most "GTA clones" failed was mainly the setting and character development. You know the key details focused upon were "bigger" and "free roam"! But the thing with GTA is GTA's settings always had character. That is something that makes the settings all the more fun to explore as opposed to True Crime or The Getaway or Driver where other than the mission settings, driving through the cities felt like driving through the same boxes that were just there to be there. That's what I love about GTA though. Every aspect of it has character that you explore and get into, whether it's the characters of the main story, the peds that pass you by, the radio personalities, or just the setting itself. ------------------- | |
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The Stinger How tall is this thing?
Neolithic total posts: 6735 since: Mar 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 5:29am |
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In my book no game will ever be a GTA killer. Grand Theft Auto III revolutionized the way we play games now. I still own GTA III and I would never trade it in. And as archaic and horrible the movement controls are, and how horrific the targetting system is, it still remains in my library as one of the greatest games ever made in my opinion. It was the turning point in the gaming industry. It expanded and improved with Vice City and San Andreas, LCS and VCS get honorable mention though they were big steps backward from San Andreas.
Grand Theft Auto has pretty much been untouchable. Game developers who tried to make a game specificly to take on GTA hurt themselves in the end and their games flopped. Getaway, Getaway Black Monday, True Crime, True Crime New York, Scarface, all garbage. These games didnt come close to touching GTA. The only games similar to GTA I enjoyed were the games that didnt try to beat GTA but were their own games entirely, those being The Godfather, and Saints Row. The Godfather is one of my favorite games. Its open ended, but has so many different things from GTA they really cant be compared. Bribing Police, Bank Robberies, Intimidating shop owners and taking them over for power and influence in the city, The Combat system was FANTASTIC, implementing the cover scheme before GTA did and the hand to hand combat was amazing. Levelling up your character RPG style to become better at certain aspects like Fighting, Shooting, or being able to draw less police attention was a welcome change. Throw in there a laundry list of execution types to perform on your enemies, Great story missions and side missions, and the eventual assault on each mafia family's headquarters and warehouses made you really feel as if you were a mobster slowly gaining control, weakening the rival families and then going in to crush them. Saints Row had more in common with GTA than The Godfather, using the star system, bascily turning a confessional into a pay n spray, but it did its own thing very well. The ability to have a driver drive you around while you lean out the window and fire any weapon you want, the ability to chuck grenades from the car with totally AWESOME explosion physics, the zany side missions like insurance fraud, Hostage, or their own take on the Rampages called "Mayhem". Saints Row also boasted a much better on foot movement scheme, moving sprint up to the Right Bumper so that you could sprint and still maintain 2 stick movement and camera control at top speed. It was also the first to implement the fast travel feature in the form of a taxi cab. GTA was right to use that one in their newest game. The Ability to call up friends on your phone and have them either drive for you, or help you on missions was a great feature as well. Saints Row took some really good things from GTA and used them in their game, while keeping their own game unique and that is why I enjoyed Saints Row as much as I did. Why Rockstar went the route that they did and changed so much of their game, I dont really know. Maybe it was in fact to show that they too could pull off a game with realism in it just to stick it to their detractors over the years. Its pretty surprising, since R* has always been themselves no matter what the press about them was doing. They always did their own thing, and delivered. I think they delivered with GTA IV, it just wasnt in the way that we were expecting. I think in light of what we've seen with GTA IV, Saints Row II has a really good shot at being a HUGE seller when it releases if it stays similar to how the first game was. R* has their realistic crime simulation juggernaut, and fans who crave that similar experience without such harsh consequences could get what they really want with the release of SR II. | |
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tspat11 just getting started!
total posts: 114 since: May 2008 |
May 20, 08 at 6:00am |
quote ChiroVetteOk if you base the argument only on the "R-word" this would make sense but if you looked beyond to the R-word combined with the other changes such as : The 200 flying rats.......Brilliant idea but they chose not to include an incentive/reward for doing all this. i could go on and on with examples up to the earning money for no reason. I just seems that all of a sudden with all the things to do in this game they are just their for no purpose. In every other gta game most everything eventualy tied together whether to give you an incentive to keep playing to making you a better player for the missions. Had they brought the r-word and the ability to tie the game together it probably wouldn't be that big an issue. But these guys have got to know what they are doing with all the research and marketing tools available. Maybe they see the future as being an online thing and thats where they are heading? | |
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The Stinger How tall is this thing?
Neolithic total posts: 6735 since: Mar 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 6:12am |
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Online play is the future of console gaming. More and more games are incorporating online play, and in many cases the singleplayer or offline aspect of the game suffers due to that.
I think that the online play is what changed the "hidden packages" incentives on this game. It used to be every 10 packages unlocked a weapon or armor or something. But in this game they added an ammo cap where you can only have so much ammo. When you 100% the game (including hunting down those damn pigeons) the ammo cap is removed and it can make you a force in online play. When you start, you can only hold 8 RPG rockets. But if that cap were removed, you could go and collect every RPG powerup you saw and be a walking freaking arsenal capable of holing up somewhere and utterly destroying anyone who tried to come in and kill you. I think that if this game had no online mode, we would have seen the reward in increments in regard to the pigeons, and there would have been no ammo cap. | |
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ChiroVette (babysitter)
(moderator) Action and Arcade [XBOX360] GTA Social Forum Grand Theft Auto IV [PS3] Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas [PS2] Writer's Lounge total posts: 33573 since: Mar 2002 |
May 20, 08 at 6:28am |
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Not sure I agree with that. Why couldn't they cap online ammo and not single player ammo? Seems to me that it would just be a matter of changing the parameters and stats.
quote tspat11Agreed. Rockstar made a mistake in my opinion. They bestowed MOST of your reward for 100% completion upon extra-game incentives. In other words, "achieving 100%" completion became "the thing" and all you get is entry into the 100% club on the social page. Aside from removing the cap on ammo (big deal) you get NOTHING except the knowlegde you did it and some bizarre little honorable mention on some obscure stats page. In addition, most of the non-storyline required activities, like pigeons, gave you NOTHING as well. You know how many times I flew the Anhihilator? Twice. Both times on the two different versions of the Final mission. Why? Because it is inferior in every way to The Hunter. In otgher words, who cares about the copter? quote tspat11 For some, perhaps but not for me. Again, this is all a matter of taste. Some people love the realism, others don't like it at all, and a lot of other people fall somewhere in between. quote tspat11Could be. But I don't think they set out to alienate fans of the single player experience, which is what they did in many cases. Again, sometimes it's just a matter of change. Maybe this is just what Rockstar wants the future of GTA to be like. They certainly don't need my permission to create the game in the fashion they see fit. If their marketing research has told them that the R-Word is the gaming motif of the future, then why shouldn't they explore that? ------------------- It's official. I have truly become a babysitter on Neo. Redemption, I want my $7.00 an hour!
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tspat11 just getting started!
total posts: 114 since: May 2008 |
May 20, 08 at 6:40am |
quote The StingerWow thats interesting, I had no idea that some of the online play could be influenced by the offline play.So iguess you can tell i'm not an online player. Thanks for the info since i've been moping around like a 10yr old kid trying to figure this shit out. Things are starting to make sense after reading your post. | |
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