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Neoseeker Forums » GameGrep Forums » GameGrep Feedback & Suggestions » Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

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Raziel_326
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Aug 16, 08 at 9:10pm
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

quote Redemption
quote Gothic Girl
I agree with kik36 ... Putting a limit on thumbs-up/thumbs-down might keep people mindful of what they are really rating.
What kinds of limits would people suggest?
Well, I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet (or if it will make too much of a difference), but what if people had to obtain a certain amount of GG points before using the thumbs system?


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Final Blade
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Aug 17, 08 at 12:17am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

quote Smoke N a Pancake
quote Final Blade

Smoke Yea it would be cause tbh it proves how scared you are just thumbing down a post without replying back which was the case majority of the time, which fits into the abusing part when posts of good quality shouldn't have been thumbed down.
That might be the single most ridiculous quote I've seen in this thread. Are you suggesting that I just go around thumbing people down for shits and giggles? Hell no, and if I disagree with something and feel the need to respond I do, which is pretty clear if you went and actually saw my Gamegrep comments.
Sorry that wasn't directed at you personally just a generalization to your post or question.
quote Smoke N a Pancake
Because it was so terrible for people to thumb someone down instead of causing a whole scene by just calling them an idiot, right?
Which if you clearly read here, you're saying its not terrible to thumb someone posts down and not reply back, hence your statement in the bold.
There is no denying that people has thumbed down posts without responding and I can assure you many will back this up. Hell my comments have been thumbed down plenty of times without anyone actually replying, which just shows how scared they are. So I apologize for that mistake.


quote Redemption
quote Gothic Girl
I agree with kik36 ... Putting a limit on thumbs-up/thumbs-down might keep people mindful of what they are really rating.
What kinds of limits would people suggest? If we had a limit system I wonder if we should limit how many thumbs a person can issue per 24hrs and how many of those thumbs can be used in a single thread. If we can nail down some specifics we could implement them and restore thumbs down with the result of it hopefully being abused less frequently.

Probably we can do the following in a relatively short time:
  1. show a list of thumbers, and what they thumbed
  2. limit the number of thumbs you can issue per day (but how do we determine how many you can issue?)
  3. limit thumbing to participants of a story and/or participants on GameGrep.
If we can determine the actual limits on #2 and #3 then we can start this ball really rolling.


!!Another System Altogether I still feel like we should replace thumbs altogether with a single word descriptor that people can rate.

Eg:
  • Funny
  • Informative
  • Interesting
Then the number of people who tag the comment with each of those tags would increase its total score, to a total of +5, along with the one word descripting.

eg Funny +3

I consider this system a "Recommendation" system rather than a rating system, you are recommending others that that a comment is worth checking out and why.


This is pretty much what Slashdot does, and I was intending on adding it as a feature for forum thread recommendations. In the forum system, you would then be able to see what threads are "Recommended" that day, even perhaps by friends.

However, if a simple thumbs limit set of rules could be suggested we could implement that first and relatively quickly.
The bolded or that system is actually something I think would be a better system then the thumbs entirely. However I rather have a report comment feature, similar to Neoseeker report posts, on Gamegrep so idiot comments like this and I quote:
quote HawkMan
boney? wow let me guess, you're a fat chick whose jealous because she has a hotter bod then you. typical.


jealousy isn't a good color on you.
quote HawkMan
you're obviously homosexual. Nothing wrong that.
quote HawkMan
the fact that you mentioned Angelina JOlie as a women with a beautiful bod,when in reality shes nothing but skelator with a vagina and human face, over a woman with a natural curved figure and a fit body, pretty much throws you're dumbass opinion out the window.

Now march to the restroom and stick your finger down your throat and maybe just maybe you and Jolie can be best friends.
quote HawkMan
Great another fatty to the rescue. you guys are like walruses on a beach always hanging out in packs.

go massage those cankles of yours,sweetcheeks.
Article link

Gets deleted.
Now I don't know about anyone else here but this member completely just went over the line insulting not only me in the second quote, but both Gothic Girl and RabidChinaGirl.
I consider GG a friend on both sites, despite our disagreements on things, I get even more pissed when people say shit without knowing the person or seeing their pics.

And assuming they're fat and assuming im a Gay for defending Gothic Girl. People like them, just don't belong on Neoseeker or gamegrep itself.


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Moonrise
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Aug 17, 08 at 3:03am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

Okay so where exactly has it been proven that the thumbs down system is a bad thing? I also ask why your quoted messages are relevant in any way to this discussion. A report system would be fine, but there's no reason to get rid of the thumbs down feature as a result.

If you're going to have "descriptions", such as "funny", "informative", and "interesting" then there had damn well better be categories like "annoying", "ridiculous", and "completely wrong".

The world isn't so convenient as to allow people to simply run around giving each other compliments left and right, which is why there should really be a thumbs down system in the first place. When people stay stupid shit, they should be "thumbed down" or at least it should be known that everyone else frowns upon their comment. Really, the existence of the thumbs down system did absolutely nothing to propagate controversy and its removal is completely unnecessary from that front. Hell, if you go around now it's probably more likely that you'll see people in long-winded arguments over nothing because instead of a group of people simply "thumbing down" a comment and letting it be, they all have to physically tell the person how much of an idiot they are which does nothing more than prompt even more ridiculous responses.

It's funny that you of all people would say that the people that thumb down without commenting are "afraid" of anything. Really, that's the best way to do things because it prevents you from making even more ridiculous comments in response to anything they had to say to you. It's not being "afraid" of anything, it's simply being smart by not adding fuel to the fire. Thumbing down a ridiculous comment without responding is really the best possible thing to do. A person can make a comment whining about how they've been thumbed down, but if people don't bother to reply to him/her then it's just going to end there without any real backlash from the person involved and anyone else.


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ShadowJ
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Aug 17, 08 at 3:30am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

That's not the problem Moonrise, thumbing down pointless comments was working. It was the fact that idiots were thumbing down perfectly good comments for reasons such as "too long to read" and "He's a "insert console here" fanboy" or the simple truth of most of them "I'm jealous of this person"

There are many more reasons and I am simply stating the ones that seem to be happening when the thumbs down feature was in.

One of my comments that was over 3 paragraphs, added to the discussion and explained/clarified the article got -2 thumbs within a matter of 3 hours.

I wouldn't mind if relevent reasons came to mind like use of txt talk/leet speak and so forth but the comment was exactly how I am posting this message right now.

However you do come across a good point that positive can't work without negative. Positive only will be abused, Negative only will be abused and will the pair together. We just need to find a system that balances it all or close enough to a balance that can be worked with.

Other than messing with the thumbs system and introducing new ones, the only other thing I can think of doing is having comment moderators or bundle more work onto the CRS team since obviously the members that have access to CRS submissions can be trusted to decide whether a comment is worthy of so many minus thumbs or so many plus thumbs.

Though the tagging system idea sounds great, as long as negative tags can be given, maybe not so harsh ones but ones that define whether a comment is worth the time to look at etc.


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Miss Razz
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Aug 17, 08 at 3:49am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

quote Moonrise
If you're going to have "descriptions", such as "funny", "informative", and "interesting" then there had damn well better be categories like "annoying", "ridiculous", and "completely wrong".

The world isn't so convenient as to allow people to simply run around giving each other compliments left and right, which is why there should really be a thumbs down system in the first place. When people stay stupid shit, they should be "thumbed down" or at least it should be known that everyone else frowns upon their comment.
This is just a suggestion, but maybe Gamegrep could have a "rating" system similar to Joystiq's ...



Whenever a comment gets "thumbed up" it goes up half a heart, and when it gets "thumbed down" it goes down half a heart.

So there's no negative numbers like Gamegrep's thumbs-down system, but the best comments will have three hearts which tells people they are worth reading, while the worst ones will have no hearts and show people that it's not really worth reading.

It's a system that isn't quite as "in your face" as being thumbed-down into the negatives.


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Akira_EX
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Aug 17, 08 at 3:57am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

quote Gothic Girl
This is just a suggestion, but maybe Gamegrep could have a "rating" system similar to Joystiq's ...



Whenever a comment gets "thumbed up" it goes up half a heart, and when it gets "thumbed down" it goes down half a heart.

So there's no negative numbers like Gamegrep's thumbs-down system, but the best comments will have three hearts which tells people they are worth reading, while the worst ones will have no hearts and show people that it's not really worth reading.

It's a system that isn't quite as "in your face" as being thumbed-down into the negatives.

Actually, it's not as simple as one thumb up/down = one half a heart. I think it gradually grows depending on the count, so it isnt as simple as three up = full.

Also, regarding Hawkman, how come no one alerted any of us moderators? I eventually dealt with him earlier today, but only after I came across it while browsing.


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Miss Razz
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Aug 17, 08 at 4:46am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments



quote Akira_EX
Actually, it's not as simple as one thumb up/down = one half a heart. I think it gradually grows depending on the count, so it isnt as simple as three up = full.
Well it should be that simple >_>


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Bale Fire
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Aug 17, 08 at 7:02am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

quote Gothic Girl

quote Akira_EX
Actually, it's not as simple as one thumb up/down = one half a heart. I think it gradually grows depending on the count, so it isnt as simple as three up = full.
Well it should be that simple >_>
Oh I like that even more. I think that would work quite well. Would people start on 1 and 1/2 hearts or something else?


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Akira_EX
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Aug 17, 08 at 7:10am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

On Joystiq you start at 2, IIRC.



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Miss Razz
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Aug 17, 08 at 7:17am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

I reckon it should start on zero hearts. Everyone's comments are crap until they get rated otherwise. XD



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Deathsythe
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Aug 17, 08 at 9:46pm
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

I still stand by the school of thought that says there was no reason to remove it in the first place, let alone implement a whole new ratings system.

The only real new thing that needs to be implemented is a report system.


Just to quote from a PM correspondence with a certain someone:

quote Deathsythe
Also lastly - It wouldn't be all that difficult to include a "Rate Down", "Bury", etc... type feature where users can actually take points away from an article in some such fashion. Granted it could lead to abuse such as what was "seen" in the Thumbing down of comments system, but even then- the whole purpose of social news sites is so they can basically govern themselves without much moderation. Ultimately - GameGrep should (god willing) be headed to a point where the moderators and approvers aren't even necessary anymore. Users can already help approve articles. If we put in a "bury" feature of sorts- users can help remove non-worthy articles from the main pages. Users can report duplicates, spam and all that nonsense.

I know I am putting a lot of faith into the userbase- but still, you see what I mean right?
Granted I was speaking more generally about the articles in general, but the same principle applies to the 'thumbing' of posts. (replace the word "article(s)" with "comment(s)" in my quote and you can get a better feel for what I am talking about.




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Final Blade
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Aug 18, 08 at 2:34am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

quote Moonrise
Okay so where exactly has it been proven that the thumbs down system is a bad thing? I also ask why your quoted messages are relevant in any way to this discussion. A report system would be fine, but there's no reason to get rid of the thumbs down feature as a result.

If you're going to have "descriptions", such as "funny", "informative", and "interesting" then there had damn well better be categories like "annoying", "ridiculous", and "completely wrong".

The world isn't so convenient as to allow people to simply run around giving each other compliments left and right, which is why there should really be a thumbs down system in the first place. When people stay stupid shit, they should be "thumbed down" or at least it should be known that everyone else frowns upon their comment. Really, the existence of the thumbs down system did absolutely nothing to propagate controversy and its removal is completely unnecessary from that front. Hell, if you go around now it's probably more likely that you'll see people in long-winded arguments over nothing because instead of a group of people simply "thumbing down" a comment and letting it be, they all have to physically tell the person how much of an idiot they are which does nothing more than prompt even more ridiculous responses.

It's funny that you of all people would say that the people that thumb down without commenting are "afraid" of anything. Really, that's the best way to do things because it prevents you from making even more ridiculous comments in response to anything they had to say to you. It's not being "afraid" of anything, it's simply being smart by not adding fuel to the fire. Thumbing down a ridiculous comment without responding is really the best possible thing to do. A person can make a comment whining about how they've been thumbed down, but if people don't bother to reply to him/her then it's just going to end there without any real backlash from the person involved and anyone else.

Me of all people? And whats that?
Im sorry Moonrise, I've been gamegreping and contributing to the site since its been around, in fact the all time leaders board should show this. I like gamegrep and im not going to stop commenting or helping the site grow. The fact I had a complaint about the thumbs down or the system in general for awhile and talked about it with a few gamegrep mods, proves im not doing it cause of myself. In fact I saw alot of fanboys thumbing down Krunal and Guticb for absolutely no reason calling them fanboys, when their posts was good.
Think what you like, you know shit about me.

LordMaChao is one of the people, while I dislike him, who actually falls under the category who replies to post, no matter how idiotic or stupid they are and put them in there place without breaking rules. Which on that level I can actually respect him for it.
And while I had great debates against him with valid points, I often find my comments thumbed down and his up to 10 thumbs up. Why I have no clue. That one big argument with him Storm and Tiger of Wu showed it but yet he gets praised with thumbs.
Im not saying to not to thumbs down, but at least reply with why you disagree and thumbed them down, so we could see why it was thumbed and why you disagree.
I remember getting thumbed down for stating how Nintendo is milking mario a shit load, without commenting, then others responded to my post saying how true my comment was which didn't deserve the negative thumbs.

ShadowJ made an excellent point as well. His posts shouldn't of been thumbed down either cause tbh I actually like his comments when he does on gamegrep.
Its just not the thumbs down, though more noticed, thats getting abused. Its the ENTIRE system atm that is. Now we have people trying to send a message and abuse the thumbs up to say we need thumbs down. I've seen lots of comments getting thumbs up which imo shouldn't be that high. And im not the only one who noticed it as well, I believe a few who posted here in this topic took notice of it.
Hell I think the removal of the current thumbs system is a must for the site. It was great when the site was new and just starting, but now after a year + into its life, the original purpose like red said is not being used.

As for your question of the quotes, it had nothing to do with the thumbs, but a suggestion of having a report feature so shit comments like that stays away from gamegrep.
Akira I didn't get a chance within the time I saw the topic to PM a mod about it. Thats why I suggested the report feature like on Neoseeker, right now, so it helps further make the site as Deathsythe called it governing it ourselves.

quote Deathsythe
the whole purpose of social news sites is so they can basically "govern themselves" without much moderation. Ultimately - GameGrep should (god willing) be headed to a point where the moderators and approvers aren't even necessary anymore. Users can already help approve articles. If we put in a "bury" feature of sorts- users can help remove non-worthy articles from the main pages. Users can report duplicates, spam and all that nonsense.
This basically holds true with the report comment feature. If we had this members like him and his comments would be noticed more by the mods.


I can't comment why no one else reported those posts. But since we're making suggestions about gamegrep and thumbs I figured to suggest a report feature as well.


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Akira_EX
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Aug 18, 08 at 3:31am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

If we are supposed to "govern ourselves", then the thumbs system shouldn't be taken away. It should be refined.

That said, there has to be someway to positively/negatively impact a comment that is easily user-accessible. There has to be a way to voice disapproval without having it tied to a name or persona; the anonymity of the internet, if you will.

Regardless, there are multiple opinions; people do have the right to agree or disagree. If you get thumbs up, odds are there is someone out there who agreed with you. If you get thumbs down, odds are there is someone out there who disagreed with you. It'll never be a perfect system, but wanting to live in a la-la land where everything falls the way you want it is an impossibility.

Also, quit with the holier than thou stuff. It's annoying.


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Aug 18, 08 at 10:37pm
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

quote Akira_EX
Also, regarding Hawkman, how come no one alerted any of us moderators? I eventually dealt with him earlier today, but only after I came across it while browsing.
I can't find any "report" button, and generally don't have time to hunt down a mod.


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Deathsythe
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Aug 19, 08 at 12:06am
re: Removing "Thumbs down" from comments

As of right now we do not have a 'report button', it is one of the features that is being discussed (and hopefully by now somewhere in the pipe).


We should probably publish a full list of the GG mods somewhere easily accessible on the main page too though.

This whole thread is chock full of loads of suggestions- someone should rip it apart and actually make them individually. (perhaps I'll do it later)



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