[Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit

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SuperGuido Neophyte total posts: 25 since: Aug 2008	Sep 05, 08 at 1:00pm [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	Several times lately I have been asked to put more detail in the description area of the brief news item. However between the description and the quote 50% of the article is already here. How much more need be said? It's already ridiculous to have 2 fields to fill in to begin with but then the 150 characters that I use weren't enough? If you want me to wear 32 pieces of flair, make the rule 32 pieces of flair.
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Hobgob1in Neo-newbie total posts: 3 since: Jun 2008	Sep 05, 08 at 3:03pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	Amen brother! It's rediculous adding an entire article to the description - it only needs to be enough to coax people to the ORIGINAL. People aren't writing this stuff to promote GameGrep alone. It should be mutually beneficial, not all simply to get this one site up Google's rankings.
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Bale Fire So powerful it burns through time N'Somniac total posts: 4786 GameGrep pts: 16931 since: Jan 2007	Sep 05, 08 at 3:06pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	Well the idea is between the quote, headline and description the reader is supposed to be able to understand the story without going to the source. The source is just for those who want the extra details and the fine print. Or at least that's how I view it. And your quotes have certainly not been even a quarter of the article. And if it was then it isn't a very good source and it would probably be best to find a bigger and more descriptive one. I'm not trying to attack you as it probably sounds like. But I just feel more depth and info is never a bad thing. ------------------- My Fanfiction My Neo-duels Like Resistance? Like Fanfiction? Come right here!
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SuperGuido Neophyte total posts: 25 since: Aug 2008	Sep 05, 08 at 4:59pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	quote Silver Mirror Well the idea is between the quote, headline and description the reader is supposed to be able to understand the story without going to the source. Then this is the problem with the whole concept here. The point isn't for us to post things so just Gamegrep gets the traffic, the point is so that both Gamegrep AND the source get the traffic. If you do not feel the same way, then I see no need for us to post anything to this site any longer as there is no benefit and all it seems to be is a waste of time and an eternal hassle.
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tekmosis neostaff wiki staff neowiki total posts: 2664 GameGrep pts: 6450 since: Jul 2006	Sep 05, 08 at 5:25pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	Can you elaborate more on why you think two fields are ridiculous? The quote field is purely optional. Even in articles on Reuters you often find quotes. We're providing a means for you to quote something while still being able to write something descriptive. I think that a few approvers are being overly strict with their approvals. As long as your description is in your own words and descriptive enough to inform the reader what the article is about and it meets the systems 150 character requirement there should be no reason to have the article sent to Requires Edit (RE). I will bring this up with the approver team so we can avoid any future incidents regarding this topic. To clarify on what would be sent to RE against something that should be approved; Headline: Free Candy Description: Go to source to get free candy Sent to RE?: Yes Headline: Free Candy Description: Boingboingboing explains how anyone can get free candy by only following a few simple guidelines! Sent to RE?: No obviously my example doesn't meet the 150 chars but you get the idea. The second article should not be sent to RE for more details or bits of information. Articles should also not be sent to RE for missing images (unless the article is about new screenshots), images are optional as well (but recommended). I absolutely agree, SuperGuido. The point is so that both GameGrep and the source both get traffic, otherwise the entire structure for news aggregation sites such as GG, Digg, etc goes against it's original purpose; to expose people to news around the entire net, keeping users up to date with infomation. I'm sorry if Silver Mirror has given off the wrong impression of GameGrep's focus and how we run things. ------------------- afk from Dec 23rd - Jan 4th
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SuperGuido Neophyte total posts: 25 since: Aug 2008	Sep 08, 08 at 9:43am re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	quote tekmosis I think that a few approvers are being overly strict with their approvals. As long as your description is in your own words and descriptive enough to inform the reader what the article is about and it meets the systems 150 character requirement there should be no reason to have the article sent to Requires Edit (RE). I will bring this up with the approver team so we can avoid any future incidents regarding this topic. I absolutely agree, SuperGuido. The point is so that both GameGrep and the source both get traffic, otherwise the entire structure for news aggregation sites such as GG, Digg, etc goes against it's original purpose; to expose people to news around the entire net, keeping users up to date with infomation. I'm sorry if Silver Mirror has given off the wrong impression of GameGrep's focus and how we run things. At this point we will continue to post news items here. But truly, if it continues in the previous fashion it is simply not worth our time to do so as the amount of traffic to us is less than 1000 hits a month which is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I have sent 2 items today as a test...
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tekmosis neostaff wiki staff neowiki total posts: 2664 GameGrep pts: 6450 since: Jul 2006	Sep 08, 08 at 5:43pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	1-1000+ is better than 0. ------------------- afk from Dec 23rd - Jan 4th
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Avalith Avasythe: Dividing by Zero since 2008/0 (moderator) RPG/Adventure [DS] Wiki Staff Applications wiki staff chrono neowiki pokemon yugioh total posts: 19455 GameGrep pts: 3898 since: Jul 2003	Sep 08, 08 at 5:57pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	You're assuming, SuperGuido, that two or three articles a day will mean an instant boost in traffic. That isn't how GameGrep works. We don't guarantee any hits to your site at all, as we cannot force people to visit the source. However, at time goes on and you persist in getting articles published on the site, chances are your traffic from GameGrep will slowly start to increase as people will see your site as the source for more and more articles that they may want to read more about. GameGrep didn't get to be the way it is after a week of lackluster effort, but from over a year of widespread effort from many people and the feedback of even more. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was a great website. ------------------- Registered Linux User No. 498029
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Anonymous Benefactor unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Sep 08, 08 at 7:15pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	I think an issue that might be looked at is the priority gamegrep places on the article's origin page v the gamegrep article page. Being honest, I actually go to the source about 5% of the time, normally I just look at the summary/description on the GG article page and the comments. I don't think this is the ideal method, GG puts too much focus on itself, instead of the source. Digg for example has the main header on the main page link to the source with a smaller link to the digg article page, whereas GG has the opposite. Another thought is the descriptions on GG; instead of having a minimum of 150 characters, have a MAX of maybe 200 characters. The way GG functions as I see it, it's more like "post your article on GG as well as on your site", instead of "link your site on GG". Of course not everyone may view it as I do, but that's just my .02
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Anonymous Benefactor unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Sep 08, 08 at 7:28pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	quote Avalith You're assuming, SuperGuido, that two or three articles a day will mean an instant boost in traffic. That isn't how GameGrep works. We don't guarantee any hits to your site at all, as we cannot force people to visit the source. However, at time goes on and you persist in getting articles published on the site, chances are your traffic from GameGrep will slowly start to increase as people will see your site as the source for more and more articles that they may want to read more about. GameGrep didn't get to be the way it is after a week of lackluster effort, but from over a year of widespread effort from many people and the feedback of even more. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was a great website. I think you're taking this a little too personally. Frankly, SuperGuido is 100% correct and justified with what he is saying. What benefit would he see on GG if he needs to paste half of his article, to the point where the GG reader's wouldn't even need to visit the site? Asking for a quote is completely superfluous, all the article should have for a description is a sentence (two at most) describing what the article is about, not a summary. A summary and quote however is what the majority of GG articles have, unfortunately and it gives the wrong impression and makes the inexperienced staff have illogical standards that don't portray the ideal purpose of sites such as gamegrep. I'm interested in hearing what the admins have to say about what I've said. gets reported for double posting
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Avalith Avasythe: Dividing by Zero since 2008/0 (moderator) RPG/Adventure [DS] Wiki Staff Applications wiki staff chrono neowiki pokemon yugioh total posts: 19455 GameGrep pts: 3898 since: Jul 2003	Sep 09, 08 at 3:29am re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	A quote is not necessary if there is a decent description already written. I personally only use the quote field to quote important information and/or humorous asides in the source that I think would encourage the reader to actually visit the source article to read the whole thing. However, many people don't use it that way so the purpose gets misconstrued as you have already pointed out. The only reason we have a minimum combined field is in the case that someone submitting a story can't fill the 150 limit in just the description so that a short paragraph or two from the source would bump the character count up enough for it to be able to go through the system. The only way to really combat this with guaranteed results is to have our approvers jump down everyone's throats and force this thinking upon them, which would only serve to frustrate our contributors and drive some of them away, thus decreasing the activity of the site and conversely the amount of interesting gaming news that gets submitted that would otherwise go unnoticed. Otherwise, the most we can do is slowly guide people toward the proper usage of the fields. ------------------- Registered Linux User No. 498029
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SuperGuido Neophyte total posts: 25 since: Aug 2008	Sep 09, 08 at 2:41pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	quote Avalith You're assuming, SuperGuido, that two or three articles a day will mean an instant boost in traffic. That isn't how GameGrep works. We don't guarantee any hits to your site at all, as we cannot force people to visit the source. However, at time goes on and you persist in getting articles published on the site, chances are your traffic from GameGrep will slowly start to increase as people will see your site as the source for more and more articles that they may want to read more about. GameGrep didn't get to be the way it is after a week of lackluster effort, but from over a year of widespread effort from many people and the feedback of even more. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was a great website. Now I feel like you have quite clearly insulted my intelligence by stating all of this which is well known far and wide, implying that I do not know any of this. But hey, thanks for telling me how the Internet works, I mean golly, I never saw it like that before. And Rome wasn't built in a day? Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle... Now back to the constructive part of the conversation. Honestly, if you don't want people criticizing your service, don't have a service or don't give us a forum to do so. I'm not talking about these things for my health. You seem to have the attitude that you don't need people posting things to your site. But if we don't post, what does your site have left to offer? As for slowly guiding us toward the proper usage of the fields.. I think again we're all smart enough to understand words like description, title, URL and quote. But again, thanks for calling us all stupid by implying that we don't know how to write 150 character descriptions etc...
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Deathsythe All My Base Are Belong to Avalith. (moderator) Wiki Staff Applications wiki staff advancewars digimon fable guitarhero neowiki total posts: 6995 neopoints: 1182 GameGrep pts: 7872 since: Jul 2002	Sep 09, 08 at 4:44pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	quote SuperGuido But if we don't post, what does your site have left to offer? Articles from arstech, gamesradar, ign, 1up, just to name a few, plus a highly interactive and dedicated community. (Not to belittle your website- but just to answer your question.) quote SuperGuido As for slowly guiding us toward the proper usage of the fields.. I think again we're all smart enough to understand words like description, title, URL and quote. But again, thanks for calling us all stupid by implying that we don't know how to write 150 character descriptions etc... I cannot see where you think that Avalith has insulted your intelligence, but I think I can speak for the rest of the members when I say I am sorry you feel that way. As was just highlighted in the post above yours SuperGuido- the quote field is NOT necessary. I do however see a little room for improvement in regards to this issue. GameGrep was created with the intention of not only allowing regular members to contribute articles to the community, but also for site-owners to have a medium in which to post their articles and gain a little more publicity and viewing as well. Perhaps sometime in the future- it can be set up so that site owners do not need to essentially rewrite something they already have written on their respective website and would be just allowed to use the quote. But until a such time where a suggestion like that is implemented- the rules state that an original 150 character minimum description is required before you post an article. Again, as highlighted in Avalith's above post- the quote section is NOT necessary, but the description is. This message was edited by Deathsythe on Sep 09 2008. ------------------- _{Thanks Diamondflame for the Christmas Avatar.}
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tekmosis neostaff wiki staff neowiki total posts: 2664 GameGrep pts: 6450 since: Jul 2006	Sep 09, 08 at 5:29pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	SuperGuido, I don't think you should be taking what Avalith says to heart. He by no means is an employee of Neo Era Media, he's simply a member of the site and his opinions and what he says should be a reflection of himself and not GameGrep or Neo Era Media's policies and beliefs. You can tell who is an employee by the following two 'tags' under a username "neostaff" and "admin". You'd be quite surprised how many people don't realize what the description and quote fields are for. Even though it is also mentioned what they are specifically for people often just don't know (or ignore the descriptions for each field) and will mix the two up or post quotes into both fields. It's not an every day occurance but it does happen. We encourage user feedback and constructive criticism so that we may improve GameGrep. This thread and your concerns are noted and have been discussed between the 'powers that be' so that we may also improve things for webmasters such as yourself. ------------------- afk from Dec 23rd - Jan 4th
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Hobgob1in Neo-newbie total posts: 3 since: Jun 2008	Sep 09, 08 at 8:27pm re: [Suggestion] Try reading the article before asking for edit
	Fair enough, GameGrep has built itself up through hard work and doing so is a difficult task for any website. But I'm afraid I still agree with SuperGuido - scoring off the work of other sites lacks integrity. GG has positioned itself to provide a valuable service to the gaming community by gathering sources together in one easy to access place, but forcing those sources to publish the better part of their articles right here and negating any encouragement for GG visitors to view the content at its source is at the heart of what he's saying. That removes GG from its position as a valuable service and turns it into something of a leech - I know that sounds harsh and insulting, but I mean 'leech' in a very literal sense of the word, without meaning insult. Perhaps the problem is that GameGrep still runs on a system designed when it was small, and still establishing itself, that needs updating to continue allowing it, its sources and its visitors to grow? When compared to N4G - the site's main competition - GG lacks the encouragement to read further by visiting the source that N4G saturates its submissions with. NeoSeeker really needs to remove those word limits and update its approval system. I suspect the people who visit this site do so because they dislike the elitist and negative nature of N4G (whose slogan should be "If you don't have something negative to say, don't say anything at all"), but GG is following closely in its footsteps with the state of its current authoritarian approval and submission system. It has a chance to provide the kind of friendly, upbeat community that's not present at N4G, but right now it intrinsically encourages submissions to give too much while offering too little in return. Work with the sites that submit articles - stop expecting them to work for you. Also, look at the title of this post. He's right when he says the current approval system gives people and the system a reason to reject a submission without even looking at the source. If GameGrep's own operators aren't looking at the source before rejecting a submission, why would visitors bother? I think that's what you're saying, right SuperGuido?
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