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AznLiquid
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Aug 25, 07 at 6:36pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

A member of a certain 2v2 team that participated in Blizzcon's SC2 2v2 tournament openly complained about the simplified interface.
As he was destroying his opponent's base with an overwhelming amount of Vikings, he typed out:



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Diversion
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Aug 26, 07 at 9:48pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

That's crazy, I guess Starcraft II is really going to have a much less complicated interface which is going make the game easy to master. I guess we'll have to wait and see how things turn out.



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AznLiquid
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Aug 28, 07 at 8:53pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

Yeah, an overly simplified interface is what a lot of Starcraft players are afraid of.

Since Blizzard hasn't released news about the Zerg, does anyone have predictions on what units they will have? I'm hoping they have have a ranged tank-style unit. Their air-to-air needs some tweaking since the other races seem to have a ton of flying units.


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nn11x3
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Aug 28, 07 at 9:54pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

Zerg should have a bigger limit. For example, Terran could be 200, Protoss could be 190, and Zerg-220 =)



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Diversion
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Aug 28, 07 at 11:59pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

I doubt the races will have different unit limit's, though I definitely think that the Zerg needs to be revamped in a similar fashion or even more than the other two races.

I always felt that the Zerg was lacking in air units as a whole and they definitely need some new ones (or new abilities) to shake the race up. It's going to be interesting to see how Blizzard executes this, while keeping the somewhat balance of units.


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Aug 29, 07 at 12:20am
re: General Game Discussion 1



Man, that line of "1 button press" should become a "priceless" line.

Build a SCV - 50 Minerals
Build a Supply Depot - 100 Minerals
Build an Army of Vikings with a push of a button... - Priceless
For everything else, there's "Master-Guide".

Someone come up with a better "Mastercard" parody.


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AznLiquid
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Aug 29, 07 at 5:18pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

Haha, yeah it really was a good line. Some pretty cocky stuff though. I don't think his team won the 2v2 either. The winning team played double Protoss with mass Phoenixes every game.



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MrRandomletters
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Aug 29, 07 at 10:13pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

Just to point this out.....

If the threads for game related discussion only, It's not general discussion, it's game discussion.



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Aug 30, 07 at 12:26am
re: General Game Discussion 1

There's such a thing as General On-Topic discussions. =O I'm changed around the title to void any confusion which might come around anyways.

A lot of games are switching over to the quick build army thing, few games require a stable and strong economy anymore, from my own experiences. In some of the games I play, it's entirely possible to set a building to making a certain kind of unit until the resources to make it run out or the population cap is breached. All it takes is two hits of my keyboard to make a complete army of Panzer tanks, for example.

Ironically, none wanted to make an army but clicking the "ins" button, but making it so that it takes an extra button before that is fine, lol.
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AznLiquid
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Aug 30, 07 at 1:59am
re: General Game Discussion 1

I loved Starcraft's original interface. Having the need of 300+ APM to play amongst the pros really shows their skill level compared to the 'average' gamer. The SC pro gamers deserve the respect and attention because the game requires a ton of practice and dedication to play. SC2 doesn't sound like it will be anything like that.


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Turkagent
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Sep 07, 07 at 10:36am
re: General Game Discussion 1

I really dont know what you mean by "mastering" the game. I mean, several people have become god-like at starcraft, or even incredibled skilled, if tahts not mastering the game(ie understanding every single units purpose, micro possiblities, limitation) and being able to understand what units are needed to counter what units...i mean what game can really be mastered in the way you're talking about?


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AznLiquid
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Sep 07, 07 at 6:14pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

quote Turkagent
I really dont know what you mean by "mastering" the game. I mean, several people have become god-like at starcraft, or even incredibled skilled, if tahts not mastering the game(ie understanding every single units purpose, micro possiblities, limitation) and being able to understand what units are needed to counter what units...i mean what game can really be mastered in the way you're talking about?
To me, when someone has mastered the game. They shouldn't be making small mistakes. Even the best players sometimes have idle workers when you expect them to control every unit they make with precision (Midas vs Savior, midas loses 8 tanks to 1 lurker...because he forgot to scan). Look at the flaws of the best players ever:
Boxer's macro and TvP are not up to par with other pro Terrans who have won starleagues
Reach's PvZ is so inconsistent and really prevented him from winning his second OSL
July plays super aggressive and it worked well for him until the age of macro really kicked off
OOv. Incredible macro, but often loses groups of units due to his lack of micro.
Casy is similar to Boxer, terrible TvP but godly TvZ micro.

The only candidate I can think of as a 'master' is Savior.
He's the only player who can play every style: low economy, high economy, standard, unorthodox, macro, micro, he even scouts different from other pros. And he executes those different styles with grace. Still, even he has major problems. When he played Bisu in the GOM MSL finals, he used the same strategy 3 times and losing all 3 times, badly. His poor hatchery placement in Reverse Temple allowed Bisu to create a choke against Savior, making the victory almost too easy for the new kid.

The pros play at a very high level, but I don't think they've mastered the game. New strategies are still being invented every few months or so.

[size=1][color=#666666]This message was edited by AznLiquid on Apr 18 2008.


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beast009
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Sep 08, 07 at 8:22pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

yeah i agree i just hope that its not too easy or to simplistic. that would make it less challenging and henceforth way *bleep*ing less fun. i like SC2 how it is but id like the new units and stuff. its really challenging strategic and it is time consuming. its almost as if they are taking away the funnest part of the game. the long lasting battles and the suspension of knowing if you can save yourself with the carrier that is on its way.now its as if when your base is under attack you can make 100 Goliaths instantly and win screw up the entire point of the game. to have fun and OWN.
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AznLiquid
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Sep 10, 07 at 11:57pm
re: General Game Discussion 1

Warning, long post.

After looking at the Terran video again. I really wonder what kind of role the Ghost is going to have. It really was a rare unit to be used in SC1. They were only used to impress the audience during pro games (yes, Boxer). Lockdown and nuking are very effective, but most people don't bother with either of those abilities. Lockdown can be very useful in TvP and TvT, but the low amount of HP and the high cost of the Ghost really held it back. By the time you hotkey Lockdown and target the enemy, the Ghost has already been shot and killed by a single siege shot, or a few hits from a Dragoon.

NastyMarine of TL.net says it best:
quote
It's abilities were placed obviously for three reasons. First of all, it's a high tier unit - there should be a reward for at least teching to this unit. Second, it's a weak unit so it needs something to compensate for it. Finally, the abilities just matches with the storyline of the Ghost - easily put there. But the unit is only efficient where it can be used in a controlled atmosphere - ie singleplayer/ums playing where the computer players are only allowed so much intelligence. Now this is a result of efficiency issues involving the abilities - not so much as it's physical attributes of attack, speed, and hit points, but how you had to use this unit in the game just wasn't realistic. On a side note, a unit like the Ghost is just not viable in a RTS to be honest. I love the unit, but the unit by itself is just isn't dangerous on it's own to be effective, even with it's abilities.

You could always disagree with me, and say "Well look at the Zerg Defiler..." and say the exact opposite. Yes the Defiler doesn't even have an attack but without this unit and its abilties, I don't know how Zerg would defeat Terran and Protoss at this day and age. And actually that would go along with my point. Read on. So what happen with the Defiler's abilities is that you could use them in all situations: Consume for more energy, Dark Swarm works in all situations as it not only is it easy to cast, but the bulk of the Zerg army can take advantage of it relatively easily as it helps the rest of your units (the Ghost is different and is independant and leaves it as a standalone unit - not good enough to support or be supported by other units) and it's especially great verses Terran (as it only has ONE effective melee unit. Also last but not least, Plague. Although it is used [effectively in competitive game] by only the most skilled players, but even at lower levels of play it's very rewarding and can be used in any situation - it can even be casted on buildings! So now compare it with the Ghost!

The Ghost can only use Lockdown on mechanical units - which leaves It's options very limited for only 80% of both Terran and Protoss units whereas a spellcaster like the Defiler which has no attack, has all efficient spells. This is where the drawback of accessibility sets into place in SC1. By the time you tech to the Ghost, your usually already facing higher tier enemy units or a mass of maybe one or two very effective unit types in which are all stronger than the Ghost - even some low tier units are way too effective against it. By the time you select the Lockdown ability, your Ghost(s) is already dead and that is due to it's low physical attributes - it's hit points and speed. This also ties into the Nuke ability where the Nuke already takes a ridiculous amount of time to create, but also can be found by the enemy player quite easily once a Ghost has marked the target area. Then BAM! the enemy player uses it's ComSat, Overlord, Observer etc to reveal the ghost and kills it way before the Nuke lands. Thats why I feel that the Ghost is just not a viable unit in a RTS, but at the same time, I know it's role can be improved and in general, this unit can be improved. So now, that brings me to the Cloak ability; as it is only efficient in a singleplayer mission vs AI. Now this isn't exactly fair to say because of course, you could always get lucky and completely catch your enemy totally offgaurd - wait a tick, that could never happen unless your enemy is totally newb! Think of it this way. if your enemy hasn't noticed that you've teched to Ghosts, then your not exactly playing a decent player as 1, it takes a good 10 minutes in a game where decent players are evenly matched to tech to Ghosts, and 2, it's not an efficient unit, and not worth the money expenses/tedious micro to use it.
However, the SC2 Ghost is now a low-medium tier unit on the Terran tech tree with about 70 HP and does ~20 damage to infantry (stats from Blizzcon). Now the Ghost has 2 new features and Lockdown has been removed. The Drop Pod ability looks flashy but is it really effective? Once the Ghost tags the area, it leaves a huge red pointer on the screen, easily alerting the opponent. The marines get killed in seconds when the pod is discovered. Same with the Nuke, the area the Ghost tags is just too big and very noticeable for the victim, who can easily move out of the way or just kill the ghost.

The new Ghost really does seem to have potential, but having those type of spells makes me wonder if it will turn out like the unit we have in SC1. Flashy but almost useless.


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AznLiquid
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Apr 19, 08 at 6:51am
re: General Game Discussion 1

Here are some shots of the Protoss interface.




The units from the Gateway are:
Zealot, Stalker, Nullifier, Immortal
High Templar, Dark Templar


[size=1][color=#666666]This message was edited by AznLiquid on Apr 18 2008.


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