Hey to everyone, merry x-mas! For us die-hard MGS fans, i know we've all been in these forums looking for every bit of info on the game. The most interesting and mysterious part was about the Patriots, and the 12 Wisemen. There have been a few forums on this subject which have all been great. The names of the creators of those threads i remember were -wintermuteprime-
and -otakon-, so if either of u r on NeoSeeker, please give ur comments to any of my ideas. I think we all agree and understand that Richard Ames is involved somehow w/ the Patriots. Also, FoxDie must be a big part of their whole operation. I just completed MGS1, and i listened very carefully to codec conversations between Snake and Naomi Hunter. I believe she plays an enormous role w/ the Patriots. When Miller, Cambell and Snake r discussing whethter Naomi is a spy, Miller(or Liquid), says she could be a spy for the terrorists, or an entirely different group altogether.Then Cambell says,"it couldn't be...",then he is cut off. Also, Naomi says to Snake, that he was injected w/ FoxDie as a part of the operation. What operation might she mean. Perhaps the operation she's speaking of is that S3 exercise from MGS2. The one that has Snake doing everything on Shadow Moses just so Raiden can use it to train(or something like that, the MGS2 ending was confusing). Also, she was Gray Fox's "sister", and even though he supposedly died, I think that he will also play quite a large role w/ everything. I mean, if he was revived after being killed, and outfitted w. that exoskeleton, why couldn't they do it again to him. Anyway, i could write a whole other thread on Gray Fox, he is my favorite, but i won't. So please, reply back to this soon anyone, and maybe we'll figure it out.

This message was edited by LordMaChao(moderator) on Jan 18 2003.

Well I didn't bother read all of your post, but according to your title and the 1st couple of lines, you are talking about the 12 Wiseman, which is basically these 2 threads:

Part 1|Part 2

They have basically broke down every piece of MGS2 in those threads.

LOL....thanks Big Balla.

Ya, i know there were a couple other 12 wisemen threads, but there hadn't been replies to them since like September. I wanted to keep the subject alive since i was finding out newer info from mgs1. Any other replies concerning the subject? Oh oh, wintermuteprime, have you read my post, wat do u think of that theory?, I value your opinion.

This message was edited by bosoxpete8 on Jan 02 2003.

Here is my theory about the entire thing.

It may only be a theory that the The Patriots are A.I but judging by the whole speech from the A.I colonel at the end of the game, I think we can make a pretty good assumption that since he had an explanation for everything, that he was telling the truth. Now what I think is the disk that Snake had at the end of the game which supposedly had the list of the names of all The Patriots was bullshit as well as the one that Raiden was given. The Patriots (A.I) probably picked 12 random names and put them on a disk in hopes of leading everything completely off-track so no one would even suspect The Patriots weren't real people at all.

Before the entire thing began, the A.I knew that Solidus was onto them so they tricked Raiden into working for them by giving him a big story and mission that he was supposed to take care of in the plant and they knew that it would eventually lead to Raiden killing Solidus therefore erasing him from their list of problems.

Now, the A.I thought that they had their problems completely taken care of until Emma inserted her virus into A.I which was supposed to destroy GW. It accomplished that but screwed up the A.I as well and thats when the colonel started freaking out inside Arsenal Gear. Once the A.I had recovered, they knew that Raiden had probably figured out what the problem was so they took no more haste in trying to cover up their identity with that of the colonel's and just explained the whole thing to Raiden. Since Raiden was of equal power to Solidus, the A.I believed that in their battle they would destroy each other so they told him that they were A.I and what their goals were.

Now Raiden was just catching on at the time when he defeated Solidus and now I think the A.I regret they told him what they did and Raiden is left with alot more knowledge then he was supposed to have.

This is why at the end Otakon told Snake that all of The Patriots were dead. Its because they were still searching for the names on that disk. We know if The Patriots picked those random names, they probably picked them a very, very long time ago since that is when the A.I was born and began to secretly run the United States. They probably chose some middle-aged men as their cover at the time and since so much time had passed, they probably died of natural causes and when it came up to the present, Otakon found them dead already for a hundred years.

*panting*

i got the perfect answerto these patriot/wismen things....wait for metal gear 3 to come out

quote Volcom

Here is my theory about the entire thing.

It may only be a theory that the The Patriots are A.I but judging by the whole speech from the A.I colonel at the end of the game, I think we can make a pretty good assumption that since he had an explanation for everything, that he was telling the truth. Now what I think is the disk that Snake had at the end of the game which supposedly had the list of the names of all The Patriots was bullshit as well as the one that Raiden was given. The Patriots (A.I) probably picked 12 random names and put them on a disk in hopes of leading everything completely off-track so no one would even suspect The Patriots weren't real people at all.

Before the entire thing began, the A.I knew that Solidus was onto them so they tricked Raiden into working for them by giving him a big story and mission that he was supposed to take care of in the plant and they knew that it would eventually lead to Raiden killing Solidus therefore erasing him from their list of problems.

Now, the A.I thought that they had their problems completely taken care of until Emma inserted her virus into A.I which was supposed to destroy GW. It accomplished that but screwed up the A.I as well and thats when the colonel started freaking out inside Arsenal Gear. Once the A.I had recovered, they knew that Raiden had probably figured out what the problem was so they took no more haste in trying to cover up their identity with that of the colonel's and just explained the whole thing to Raiden. Since Raiden was of equal power to Solidus, the A.I believed that in their battle they would destroy each other so they told him that they were A.I and what their goals were.

Now Raiden was just catching on at the time when he defeated Solidus and now I think the A.I regret they told him what they did and Raiden is left with alot more knowledge then he was supposed to have.

This is why at the end Otakon told Snake that all of The Patriots were dead. Its because they were still searching for the names on that disk. We know if The Patriots picked those random names, they probably picked them a very, very long time ago since that is when the A.I was born and began to secretly run the United States. They probably chose some middle-aged men as their cover at the time and since so much time had passed, they probably died of natural causes and when it came up to the present, Otakon found them dead already for a hundred years.

*panting*

Whoa, nice theory.

quote Game Masta

i got the perfect answerto these patriot/wismen things....wait for metal gear 3 to come out

Even better.

I like Volcoms theory. However, Hideo Kojima said, in an interview with PSM, that there would not be another Metal Gear game. He did say that if somehow a game was made, he would have nothing to do with it. That game would not be very good.

quote BigBalla118

Part 1|Part 2

They have basically broke down every piece of MGS2 in those threads.

This discussion really should be redirected to Part 2 of the Wiseman discussion.

Sorry Big Balla, I really wasn't around too much for the discussions you had in those 2 parts, but I don't think too many people are going to view those threads because there so old. I just put this one up a couple days ago and I've already gotten a few replies, so I'm going to keep this forum going. If the people from parts 1 and 2 don't come and give their replies, then I'll just keep it as one for new comers and people who just finished the game to come submit their theories. There are a lot of different theories out there and I want them all to be heard.

Hes not saying he doesnt want them to be heard. He is merely saying there is already a thread for this. If you dont want to read it fine dont but at least post your theories on the correct thread.

The other Wisemen forums are gone LaChao, read the end of part 2, WintermutePrime says that was the end of the forum and the subject was exhausted, but he was looking forward to other Patriots threads. I wanted to make my own thread on the subject so I did. I'm going to keep posting my ideas on this one, this is the correct forum to me, just stop telling me that this isn't the right thread to be discussing the Wisemen on. Now, can I please just get replies on the actual subject here?

quote Bryce T

I like Volcoms theory. However, Hideo Kojima said, in an interview with PSM, that there would not be another Metal Gear game. He did say that if somehow a game was made, he would have nothing to do with it. That game would not be very good.

And later on, Hideo had an interview with IGN. He then stated that MGS3 would be the last MGS game that he directed...

Thanks for bringing that up Cdemon. Your only partially right though. Hideo will be directing MGS3 even though we all thought MGS2 was the last one. Also, in a section of Playstation magazine which I think is the best resource for PS2 info, says that Kojima will be coming out with a new Metal Gear game every 2 years(just think, MGS4, MGS5,...)and also a VR missions type game in the middle year. So an example could be like, MGS4 in 2005, two years away, with that VR game in 2004. Metal Gear Solid will be like a Final Fantasy franchise I think. And I just found out from the newest issue of the OPS magazine, that MGS3 is supposedly going to take place between MGS and MGS2, I don't think its going to follow up MGS2. This could be good and bad. If true, it could make sense of some things that happen in Sons of Liberty, but im anxious to see what happens after with the Patriots. If anyone gets new info about it, post it here.

Personally, I think that they should stop making Metal Gear games. I mean I like them and all. But, they should quit while they're ahead so that they don't ruin the series.