re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE! - Page 3

Forum Options:	my.neoforum register members prefs search faq

Options: Print subscribe remove send to friend NeoPM Topic: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
Threads List « Next Newest Next Oldest »
tomato13187 NEVER FORGET 2/5 Neoholic since: Dec 2004	Oct 19, 07 at 6:12pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	That's what I was thinking, that not enough people would be willing to put time into both. So yes, I think I'll run the Spriting Tourney towards the end, if not after the Team Debates. I'd be good with both too, though I think it'll be in favor of everyone to run them at different times. ------------------- [/size]
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
Members, log in or register to remove these ads.
GhostMember Jacket! :3 Hooked on Neo wiki staff fireemblem total posts: 4350 since: Oct 2006	Oct 25, 07 at 6:08pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	I want to debate with someone for fun. >.> Quick, archer debaet~ Wil vs Rebecca vs Louise. I'll take Rebecca. -------------------
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
MastaHazuki Let me be the fire in your eyes Hooked on Neo total posts: 4249 since: Feb 2003	Oct 25, 07 at 6:12pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	What happened to your 0 levels? And I'll try to give you a good run. Imma go with #2 on the sexy tier list, Louise. ------------------- "Death's gotta be easy, 'cause life is hard."
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
GhostMember Jacket! :3 Hooked on Neo wiki staff fireemblem total posts: 4350 since: Oct 2006	Oct 25, 07 at 6:29pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	quote MastaHazuki What happened to your 0 levels? And I'll try to give you a good run. Imma go with #2 on the sexy tier list, Louise. A quick and fast debate wouldn't hurt~ I'll start: Rebecca is the first archer you get in EM and HM which makes her an asset. And coincidentally, she is also the cutest. She is the only character with a decent range 2 weapon for a while and can weaken enemies for Eliwood or pick off those enemies who are alive by the skin of their teeth without fear of counterattack. Rebecca also has high Spd and Luk which gives her ridiculously high Eva to the point where she is almost untouchable. She also has supports with excellent characters like Lowen and Raven; both of which improve her durability as well as her partners. Her high Spd also makes her one of the better attackers throughout the game since he can double attack most enemies and her effectiveness bonus against Wyverns will help later on where they start to be a threat to your group. -------------------
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
MastaHazuki Let me be the fire in your eyes Hooked on Neo total posts: 4249 since: Feb 2003	Oct 25, 07 at 6:51pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	I dunno if this is post/counter/counter, so I'll just talk 'bout Louise. Louise is a hawt sniper with a built-in A support with the best magic user in the game, Pent. Louise's bases(important for prepromotes) are decent to great, and she's already trained and promoted, so no promotion item lost here. Joining with 26 ATK and 17 AS, she's quite a force from the get-go. Coming in with an A in bows, she'd shoot better than she dances or sings if she were Beyonce. She creates a fairly quick support triangle with our favorite Berserker, Hawkeye. Erk, another great magic user, forms another triangle with her and Pent. She could even deign to share her talent with the ungraceful Rebecca. Louise has all the perks of bowmen(or women), effective mt against fliers and fearless of CT's. ------------------- "Death's gotta be easy, 'cause life is hard."
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
GhostMember Jacket! :3 Hooked on Neo wiki staff fireemblem total posts: 4350 since: Oct 2006	Oct 25, 07 at 7:16pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	Let's just go with Post/Counter/counter. >.> Louise may have an auto A support with Pent... but is he really the best magic user in the game? Pent is locked to a support with a Sniper who isn't the best of her class. Erk or Priscilla are arguably better as they join earlier as well as have better supports. They would probably have level leads as well as higher stats by the time Pent joins. Louise bases are like you say, 'decent to great'. At worst, her individual stats are passable (i.e. HP, Skl, Spd) and at best, great (Res). She joins with 26 POW while Pent is near and has 17 AS. Now let's take a look at Rebecca by the time Louise joins. She'd be about 20/5 and have full supports by then. Let's take 20/5 A Lowen B Raven!Rebecca with a Steel bow. She has 29 POW and 18 AS. I see Rebecca's offensive capabilities are better than Louise's. :hmm: The problem with Louise's supports are as follows: Pent - Outdone by Erk and Priscilla Hawkeye - Outdone by Geitz due to his lack of Spd Rebecca - Wants A Lowen B Raven Erk - Okay, he has space for Louise. Guy - Wants Matthew and Priscilla Heath - Sucks. Sain - Prefers Kent, Fiora, Rebecca, or Priscilla. So, let's give her A Pent B Erk and assume they're both being fielded. That can only be completed after at least 3 or 4 chapters and in that time, she Rebecca still outperforms her. -------------------
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
MastaHazuki Let me be the fire in your eyes Hooked on Neo total posts: 4249 since: Feb 2003	Oct 25, 07 at 8:02pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	quote Louise may have an auto A support with Pent... but is he really the best magic user in the game? Pent is locked to a support with a Sniper who isn't the best of her class. Oh? And would Erk be viewed as lesser if he locked himself in a B support with a rng-screwed pris(or vice-versa)? Pent's the best because he's the most reliable. You can read off Pent's bases, Louise's bases and their support bonuses straight from the source and you'll know that's exactly what you'll get. A-Louise is no detriment. quote They would probably have level leads as well as higher stats by the time Pent joins. 'Becca's Level lead at the cost of babying, expensive weaponry(even iron) and a promotion item. There's no need to bring another vunerable unit past the chapters in which she's forced, so fielding 'Becca hurts your team. quote Now let's take a look at Rebecca by the time Louise joins. She'd be about 20/5 Hold it! >.> 20/5 is way too high. HHM exp cuts make it so that you'd be dishing out some favoritism here. Is your whole party 20/5 by 26(excluding lords and main healer)? I highly doubt it. quote Let's take 20/5 A Lowen B Raven!Rebecca with a Steel bow. The problem here is that Raven is full up and Lowen loses his Eli/Ken triangle. Now you're frocking with solid arrangements to field your unit. So no, no supports here. quote I see Rebecca's offensive capabilities are better than Louise's. :hmm: Only when we've significantly butterfrocked our team to field 'Becca. quote The problem with Louise's supports are as follows: Pent - Outdone by Erk and Priscilla Hardly. Erk loses in everything but speed, and Pris is more or less a troub about to promote. Since you're spamming both healers to keep exp rank up, barrier and hammerne uses are divided. Even when she promotes, she loses to Pent. (oh, and Erk and Pris only have C together, as Pris is in the Rave/Luc/Pris triangle) And hell, that's if they aren't screwed. Remember my bit on reliability? quote Hawkeye - Outdone by Geitz due to his lack of Spd Hawkeye wins in just about everything else, including supports. ESPECIALLY supports. quote Rebecca - Wants A Lowen B Raven Which she won't have. quote Guy - Wants Matthew and Priscilla Heath - Sucks. Sain - Prefers Kent, Fiora, Rebecca, or Priscilla. These guys would take too long anyway, which is probably why I didn't mention them. quote So, let's give her A Pent B Erk and assume they're both being fielded. That can only be completed after at least 3 or 4 chapters and in that time, she Rebecca still outperforms her. Lady Louise beats unsupported 20/2 'Becca. 'Becca still needs to undo the damage she's caused your team to get to that level anyway. So we only have one counter left each? ------------------- "Death's gotta be easy, 'cause life is hard."
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
GhostMember Jacket! :3 Hooked on Neo wiki staff fireemblem total posts: 4350 since: Oct 2006	Oct 25, 07 at 8:44pm re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	quote MastaHazuki Oh? And would Erk be viewed as lesser if he locked himself in a B support with a rng-screwed pris(or vice-versa)? Pent's the best because he's the most reliable. You can read off Pent's bases, Louise's bases and their support bonuses straight from the source and you'll know that's exactly what you'll get. A-Louise is no detriment. RNG screwage argument is moot as Erk's averages are all that matter. Erk also has 16 chapters of usage over Pent and LHM training so Erk'll have a level lead over Pent. Pent is inferior to Erk as Louise is to Rebecca. A support between two average units <<<<< Fielding two excellent units. quote MastaHazuki 'Becca's Level lead at the cost of babying, expensive weaponry(even iron) and a promotion item. There's no need to bring another vunerable unit past the chapters in which she's forced, so fielding 'Becca hurts your team. O Rly? Rebecca's usage doesn't require babying since like you agreed, that archers have the advantage of not being counterattacked and as I've pointed out, Rebecca's makes her a dodge queen when she gets attacked. Also, Funds rank is not a problem in FE7 due to the Silver Card as well as the number of gems you get in the game. Rebecca, again, is the only reliable range 2 unit you get early on until Erk arrives and therefore, she is getting fielded. quote Hold it! >.> 20/5 is way too high. HHM exp cuts make it so that you'd be dishing out some favoritism here. Is your whole party 20/5 by 26(excluding lords and main healer)? I highly doubt it. Considering Rebecca's been in use for 19 chapters, 20/5 is a perfectly reasonable level. quote The problem here is that Raven is full up and Lowen loses his Eli/Ken triangle. Now you're frocking with solid arrangements to field your unit. So no, no supports here. ] Raven is full with who? Priscilla? Hell no. She wants Oswin and Erk or Guy. Lucius? Maybe. B support seems nice for him. Bartre? Hahahaha-no. Wil? No. >.< Lowen loses his Eliwood/Harken triangle? I doubt you're using Harken while Raven's in your party who is Harken's superior in stats. A Raven B Lowen is perfectly viable for Rebecca. quote Only when we've significantly butterfrocked our team to field 'Becca. lol butterfrock. : D quote Hardly. Erk loses in everything but speed, and Pris is more or less a troub about to promote. Since you're spamming both healers to keep exp rank up, barrier and hammerne uses are divided. Even when she promotes, she loses to Pent. (oh, and Erk and Pris only have C together, as Pris is in the Rave/Luc/Pris triangle) And hell, that's if they aren't screwed. Remember my bit on reliability? Yeah... and HP and Res aren't stats anymore. Also, Spd is the most important stat in FE7. Erk is outdamaging Pent since he's double attacking and Pent isn't and Erk is being more durable since he's avoiding DAs as well as dodging more. Why do you think Bartre and Hawkeye aren't excellent units despite beating Geitz in a number of stats? And Priscilla has her own EXP pool since she uses staves. Also, since we're spamming them to keep EXP ranks up, we're getting her to promote earlier than our other units. She gains D rank in Anima upon promotion, and guess what that means? Thunder. Priscilla's offense is excellent upon promotion as well as her dodge. That makes her a frontline unit and is therefore getting more EXP than other units. Also, she gets an EXP bonus for being a Valkyrie. She's levelling much faster than everyone else and will have a even higher level lead over Pent. quote Hawkeye wins in just about everything else, including supports. ESPECIALLY supports. Still has crap offense and defense. quote Which she won't have. Yes she will. : D quote Lady Louise beats unsupported 20/2 'Becca. 'Becca still needs to undo the damage she's caused your team to get to that level anyway. Yeah, and she loses out to 20/5 supported Rebecca. And her helping two excellent units as well as killing Wyverns with absurd ease is going to be tough to repair. D: quote So we only have one counter left each? Yar. Make your last counter pretty. ^^ Good debate btw. -------------------
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
MastaHazuki Let me be the fire in your eyes Hooked on Neo total posts: 4249 since: Feb 2003	Oct 25, 07 at 10:07pm re: General On-Topic Discussion [Where the big boys come to play]
	quote Yar. Make your last counter pretty. ^^ Will do. quote RNG screwage argument is moot as Erk's averages are all that matter. Screwage is only moot when both units being compared level up around the same amount. Bases are all we're looking at for PentxLouise, which we can count on 100% of the time. quote A support between two average units <<<<< Fielding two excellent units. Ohh, I'll get to this in a more proper segment. I'm looking at you, Pris. quote O Rly? Rebecca's usage doesn't require babying...Rebecca's makes her a dodge queen when she gets attacked. ... Rebecca lv. 1 archer 17 HP 16 AVO 3 DEF 1 RES Note the inability to counter attack, making her a high-priority target. You're making a difficult HHM earlygame even harder. Let's look at her offensive abilities with her starting weapon while we're at it. Iron Bow Rebecca 10 ATK 97 HIT 6 AS She doubles little and one-rounds nothing. You are forced to set up gift kills for her to make her decent, and that sucks up time, money and exp. She's already a vulnerable unit and her poor offense seals the deal. Leveling her is a losing proposition. quote Also, Funds rank is not a problem in FE7 due to the Silver Card as well as the number of gems you get in the game. Please. If funds weren't a problem, we'd promote Dart and Matthew. Since we obviously don't, funds are taken into consideration. quote Considering Rebecca's been in use for 19 chapters, 20/5 is a perfectly reasonable level. Is your whole party 20/5 by 26(excluding lords and main healer)? I highly doubt it. Aw, I thought you'd like my Phoenix Wright comment. quote Raven is full with who? Priscilla? Hell no. She wants Oswin and Erk or Guy. Lucius? Maybe. B support seems nice for him. Lol @ Raven looking at 'Becca for his optimal support. Rave/Luc/Pris triangle sets up fast with solid bonuses. quote Lowen loses his Eliwood/Harken triangle? I doubt you're using Harken while Raven's in your party who is Harken's superior in stats. So? Field Raven/Luc/Pris and Low/Eli/Ken. See what happens. quote Erk is outdamaging Pent since he's double attacking and Pent isn't Oh dear, 20/5 Erk has 18 AS, and Pent has 17 AS. 1 AS lead =/= one arbitrarily doubling while the other does not. quote Erk is being more durable since he's avoiding DAs as well as dodging more. ;3 Pent actually has the dodge lead due to higher luck. His A support more than cancels out Erk's C pris. Let's not forget the 5 Def lead(+3 from auto support) and HP lead that Pent has. Durability goes to Pent, hands down. quote And Priscilla has her own EXP pool since she uses staves. Also, since we're spamming them to keep EXP ranks up, we're getting her to promote earlier than our other units. She gains D rank in Anima upon promotion, and guess what that means? Thunder. AS loss for pris when she's 15 AS at 20/3? Good deal. quote Priscilla's offense is excellent upon promotion as well as her dodge. That makes her a frontline unit Your setup does not make pris a frontliner. 20/3 Pris with A Erk(incompatible affinity) and thunder has 53 avoid. It would be good if she didn't die in two hits, which she does. She will dai on the frontlines. quote Priscilla's offense is excellent upon promotion as well as her dodge. That makes her a frontline unit and is therefore getting more EXP than other units. Also, she gets an EXP bonus for being a Valkyrie. She's levelling much faster than everyone else and will have a even higher level lead over Pent. She's a 3/0 healer. Even with stave spamming, she'll promote at earliest 25 HHM. Then, she has to make 5 levels to catch up to Pent in one Chapter. quote Still has crap offense and defense. His offense is decent and defense is solid, moreso with supports. quote And her helping two excellent units as well as killing Wyverns with absurd ease is going to be tough to repair. D: She has quite a debt to repay at this point. quote Good debate btw. Good enough to lose sleep over, actually. Thanks for the match. ------------------- "Death's gotta be easy, 'cause life is hard."
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
GhostMember Jacket! :3 Hooked on Neo wiki staff fireemblem total posts: 4350 since: Oct 2006	Oct 26, 07 at 12:24am re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	Unrelated, but the results from a Japanese poll about their favourite FE7 characters~ http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/k_tohyo/index.html 1. Nino 2. Eliwood 3. Hector 4. Raven 5. Matthew 6. Lyn 7. Lloyd 8. Lucius 9. Canas 10. Rebecca 11. Jaffar 12. Karel 13. Guy 14. Legault 15. Florina 16. Rath 17. Ninian 18. Wil 19. Serra 20. Priscilla 21. Erk 22. Ursula 23. Fiora 24. Sain 25. Heath 26. Karla 27. Pent 28. Farina 29. Kent 30. Roland And using Google to translate the text is fun. (On Eliwood's page, one of the comments about him was translated to "Roy likes to be your father!" XD) -------------------
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
Eliwood the Slayer Neolithic total posts: 6646 since: Jul 2006	Oct 26, 07 at 5:12am re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	>.> Nino and Eliwood sucks. Raven and Hector however.. The japanese poll needs to re-calculate their favourite characters. >.>
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
MastaHazuki Let me be the fire in your eyes Hooked on Neo total posts: 4249 since: Feb 2003	Oct 26, 07 at 5:53am re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	Nino's the typical, innocent, self-sacrificing character type. She's #1 over there for sure. haha nobody likes u kent. ------------------- "Death's gotta be easy, 'cause life is hard."
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
The Deathwind I got a faceli- OH DEAR GOD. Neolithic total posts: 6395 since: Jun 2006	Oct 26, 07 at 6:01am re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	quote MastaHazuki Nino's the typical, innocent, self-sacrificing character type. She's #1 over there for sure. haha nobody likes u kent. I like Kent. D: ------------------- If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
GhostMember Jacket! :3 Hooked on Neo wiki staff fireemblem total posts: 4350 since: Oct 2006	Oct 26, 07 at 6:07am re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	quote MastaHazuki Nino's the typical, innocent, self-sacrificing character type. She's #1 over there for sure. I think her being loli has more to do with it. ... -------------------
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
The Deathwind I got a faceli- OH DEAR GOD. Neolithic total posts: 6395 since: Jun 2006	Oct 26, 07 at 6:12am re: General On-Topic Discussion FE OLDIES UNITE!
	> pedo-bait. God-Kent FTW. ------------------- If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del report
[All dates in (PT) time]	Threads List « Next Newest Next Oldest »

Fire Emblem Forum