TBH OsW1N only has 2 more def than Hector, but Hector + Armads beats him. Only 1 chapter, but still...

quote LordOctan

I also thought Dart at 20/20 had better HP, Strength, and Speed than Hawkeye at --/20. Hawkeye hits slightly better but due to higher Strength, but it doesn't matter because neither miss often and Hawkeye doesn't double stuff well. Also, Dart has worse defenses, but only by so many points that it's cancelled out by his much, much better Speed.

Oswin starts 8 levels ahead of him and isn't locked to a late fixed promotion time in HNM/HHM.

True. I forgot that since I have both a EHM & HHM file going.

quote LordOctan

So I'd say that Guy is great because he's fast, but if RNG messes up just a few times he is in bad condition. Rebecca is also awesome but you went against her in the "Rebecca" thread.

quote GM in the Rebecca thread

She's good statistically at late levels, I'm sure most of us can agree on that. However, her supports are inferior to everyone else's, which lowers the worth her higher stats. Then, her supports don't cover up for her weaknesses (Durability) which is a bit of a problem in HHM. That, and promoting her takes up 20K from your funds rank.

So I don't know what to say about that

I know I misquoted that thing about Lyn as being about Rebecca, but at the time that was posted, I thought it was about Rebecca:
1) My first paragraph was about Rebecca. I quoted GM's first paragraph.
2) Lyn comes early in the game and her defenses don't matter because she's good at level 13-15+ (which she should be by chapter 13 or 16 or whenever you re-recruit Lyn's mode people).
3) Rebecca comes later in the game, can barely be levelled up without abuse (which of course I do), and has terrible defense early on.
4) I've never bought or sold an Orion's Bolt or a Heaven Seal.
5) I don't know much about the Supports, but it seems like half of Rebecca's Support partners already Supported somebody else or have someone better to Support.
Since I talked primarily about Rebecca in my post before that, and except for one thing he looked like he was talking much more about Rebecca than about Lyn, I think my mistake was justified.

That being said, I compared with 20/20 stats and -/20 stats because statistically, that is absolute proof.

Also, I didn't say the Def. gap between Oswin and Hector was huge, just that Oswin got 30 while Hector didn't. And even if Hawkeye's strength and defense are better than Dart's, his speed cancels out most of his flaws (like Guy - some of his speed + HP + little bit of defenses).

Hector > Dart > Hawkeye

Armads + Strength + Defense > Speed > OK Defenses

This message was edited by LordOctan on Apr 22 2008.

Why is Rebbecca being dragged into this? Dart was bad enough, but bringing in his sister? lol

Remember that promoting Dart is going to cost you ?50000 is it? gold. Now, that may not be a problem for you personally since you AA, but in HHM its a big factor. You need to sell that Ocean Seal for gold.

I'm still kinda curious as to where you got those quotes in the 'Eliwood sucks' thread.

1) Rebecca is being dragged in because I thought GM didn't like Rebecca because I misunderstood an earlier post.
2) Why do I need any more money in HHM than in any other mode, unless I'm going for 5-star funds?
3) Even if you don't promote Dart, Oswin can take Hawkeye's place. He's a General and his Speed is the same if not better (someone check me on that please), plus Strength, HP, and Defense I believe.
4) Those quotes were from the Rebecca thread. This was the entire post.

quote GM in that post I quoted

She's good statistically at late levels, I'm sure most of us can agree on that. However, her supports are inferior to everyone else's, which lowers the worth her higher stats. Then, her supports don't cover up for her weaknesses (Durability) which is a bit of a problem in HHM. That, and promoting her takes up 20K from your funds rank.

... And in LHM, I don't think Lyn can reach level 15+ if I want to use Kent, Erk, and Sain, and get the Silver Gem. Feel free to prove me wrong on this one, though. >.>

quote LordOctan

Why do I need any more money in HHM than in any other mode, unless I'm going for 5-star funds?

quote LordOctan

Even if you don't promote Dart, Oswin can take Hawkeye's place. He's a General and his Speed is the same if not better (someone check me on that please), plus Strength, HP, and Defense I believe.

quote LordOctan

That being said, I compared with 20/20 stats and -/20 stats because statistically, that is absolute proof.

All my other posts on the Rebecca thread were clearly supporting her. <_>

... and Rebecca is the opposite of Lyn; her stats are only slightly above average for a unit, but her supports are h4x. A Lowen B Raven allows her to match or even outdo a fully supported HHM Guy in Eva from Midgame onwards.

I was just joking with the 'Why bring Rebbecca in?' thing.

quote FireEmblemFanatic

TBH OsW1N only has 2 more def than Hector, but Hector + Armads beats him. Only 1 chapter, but still...

quote LordOctan

I also thought Dart at 20/20 had better HP, Strength, and Speed than Hawkeye at --/20. Hawkeye hits slightly better but due to higher Strength, but it doesn't matter because neither miss often and Hawkeye doesn't double stuff well. Also, Dart has worse defenses, but only by so many points that it's cancelled out by his much, much better Speed.

Dart does beat him at 20/20, but neither of them should be reaching level 20 promoted.

quote Insanity Prevails

quote LordOctan

Even if you don't promote Dart, Oswin can take Hawkeye's place. He's a General and his Speed is the same if not better (someone check me on that please), plus Strength, HP, and Defense I believe.

And Guy could replace Dart, since he has better speed and doesn't nuke the funds rank. Obviously, neither Dart or Hawkeye are going to be first picks for an army, so saying a top tier unit could replace one of them is a rather moot point. Yeah, that's why they aren't top tier.

quote Insanity Prevails

quote LordOctan

That being said, I compared with 20/20 stats and -/20 stats because statistically, that is absolute proof.

Absolute proof of what? Nobody except Athos starts Lv20 promoted.

I could have sworn that we were debating something other than Hector vs. Hawkeye... Maybe that was another thread.

And yea, Hector does beat Hawkeye.

quote FireEmblemFanatic

I'm still kinda curious as to where you got those quotes in the 'Eliwood sucks' thread.

quote FireEmblemFanatic

I'm still kinda curious as to where you got those quotes in the 'Eliwood sucks' thread.

quote LordOctan

But Oswin can completely replace Hawkeye in every way except being a Berserker. Hawkeye is pathetic. Dart, on the other hand, is only replaced by Guy's Speed (which is obviously better). Dart still has his HP, Strength, and Berserker-ness.

quote LordOctan

Absolute proof of who's statistically better. This doesn't count for effort spent (but you know what I think of that: the effort was in the 20-some chapters you didn't have Hawkeye), but it is a statistical comparison.

quote LordOctan

Now let's get back to the point. If it's established that Oswin >>>>>>>>>>> Hawkeye and Hector > Oswin, then Hector >>>>>>>>>>>> Hawkeye.