And here we go again.....

Continue all NFL Discussions here guys.

By the way, I love how during all this talk about the Tight end position being re-defined in the league, everyone talks about Heap and Shockey, and now Kellen Winslow. Not one word is said about Tony Gonzalez, considering that he is the best in the league right now, and was the guy that redefined the tight end position in the first place. That figures.

Stinger, that's like comparing apples, to a really awesome apple. They may equal him on some fronts, but day in and day out, the consistency of greatness is what makes Gonzo who he is.

Kellen Winslow has what it takes physically to become as good as a Gonzo according to the draft previews, but that's a small part of the big picture, and there's zero guarantee this means he'll be the man, especially with how immature he is.

Having Gonzo play for the Chiefs is the best. It's a position which is underrated, has minimal value, yet makes a HUGE difference.

Bullwinkle

i think winslow will be better than gonzalez. of course, that's assuming he keeps his head on straight. he has some major attitude problems. everyone knows about his speed and hands, but he's an underrated blocker. i've seen him throw some vicious blocks. hell, he took out 2 vols on 1 play when we played them this year.

eeeeeeeeasy Mr. Davis. That's a huge thing to say, sir. Laying blocks down on the vols is different than squaring up with a professional DE on a sweep play. I've also seen Trent Green lay some SERIOUS smack down on a few players, but I wouldn't dare say he's a good blocker.

But at least you're hopeful!

TEs are so underrated. If there was a WR in this draft who was to be as awesome as Winslow is supposed to be at TE, he would go in the first 2 picks. A good TE will get a mismatch much easier and will get you the hard yards when you need them.

Bullwinkle

taking out 2 players on 1 play is huge. i'm not talking about some pansy ass chop blocking either.

not to put down his blocking skills, but that's an ideal situation. Real blocking skills come down whenever you have to push a lineman a yard up the field to make the lane big enough. Kudos on the twofer, but I think when they say he needs to work on his blocking, it's more of uitilization of blocking skills, than it is strength. He might have problems picking up on blitzes when he stays back to protect, or may not be able to keep a lineman in place long enough on the run. I dunno, but blocking is super complicated part of the game, and his may only be at a college level or something.

Bullwinkle

"The two-time NFL MVP expects to be released after being told he won't be the Rams' starting quarterback next season, his agent, Mark Bartelstein, said Tuesday.

Warner, who rose from a small-college star stocking grocery store shelves to Super Bowl hero, was given permission to contact other teams." -Foxsports.com

Think he can find a starting position somewhere in the NFL?

Speaking of TEs did Shannon Sharpe retire or what?
I expect to see Crumpler make another visit to the Pro-Bowl.

Winslow has the aforementioned attitude problem, which believe it or not, does drop a player's value. Tony Gonzalez is as good as they come skillwise, and has the first class character to go with it. Noone wants another Shockey or T.O. on their team. You might have the skill, but noone wants to tolerate the bullshit.

As for the blocking, we will see how he does blocking the professionals. Recievers/Te's....they all look good in college. What happens to most when they hit the league is that their talents arent nearly what they were when they were playing in school when matched up against the pros.

When Kellen Winslow takes out a couple pros on a strongside pitch, Then Ill be impressed by his blocks.

When he reaches the Pro Bowl 5 times, you can compare him to Gonzalez. But to just come out and say this guy is/will be better than Tony G before he even gets in one NFL play is just going a little bit far. Just a little bit....

Hell, Shockey was supposed to be the guy to be better than Tony when all the hype was flying around about him. I havent seen jack out of him so far. Just a big mouth and brick hands.

In my view the closest guy to Tony G is Todd Heap. He has been in the role of go-to guy being the main weapon in the offense, and has the skills to make the circus catches. Not to mention Heap has a pretty good attitude to boot.

Mr Winslow has just a little ways to go before I go comparing him to Heap and Gonzalez, let alone spewing out prophecy that he will be better than either one of those guys.

quote Bullwinkle

TEs are so underrated. If there was a WR in this draft who was to be as awesome as Winslow is supposed to be at TE, he would go in the first 2 picks.

well Larry FITZ mite go with pick No.2 but i think he's alot betta than Kellen WInslow Jr.
Todd Heap i think will be just about as good as Gonzo when hes around 26+. he mite no be the quickest TE eva but he gets into space and can catch the ball betta than ALOT of WR"s who get paid more than he doz.


watching SportSCenter none of the dudes thort that Kurt Warner wood be a starter this season, but a high priced backup wood be good 4 him.


Mj

quote The Stinger

When he reaches the Pro Bowl 5 times, you can compare him to Gonzalez. But to just come out and say this guy is/will be better than Tony G before he even gets in one NFL play is just going a little bit far. Just a little bit....

i'm not going to compare kellen winslow now to tony gonzalez now. that is ludicrous. however, to say that he will someday be better isn't. right now, he's better than gonzalez was at the same time. as i said, i'm going on the assumption that he keeps his shit together and maximizes his potential. some scouts even say that he could be better than his pop.

on the supplimentary draft...

The supplemental draft is a lottery system that is broken into three groups.

1. Teams with 6 wins or less
2. Remaining teams that did not make the playoffs
3. Playoff teams

Teams are then weighted by their draft position in the previous draft (San Diego=32, Oakland=31 all the way down to New England=1). They then have three drawings, one for each different segment. So since there were 13 teams that finished with 6 or less wins, the first group has a total of 338 entries (32+31+30+29+.....+20 for the 13th team) and San Diego would have 32 of those entries. So San Diego would only have about a 9.5% chance of getting the 1st pick in the supplemental draft. Buffalo is the "last" team that would have a chance at getting the first pick in a supplemental draft, and their odds would be slightly less than 6%. After they determine the order for the first group of teams, they have a second drawing for the next group (non playoff teams with greater than six wins) and then a third drawing for the last group (playoff teams).

I was looking in the last thread and noticing everybody bringing up Ryan Leaf and D. Underwood, and saying that Roethlisburger will be like them since he isn't a Manning. That's not at all true.

Big Ben is a first class person, like Tony Gonzalez, and he has a first class work ethic, two things that Underwood and Leaf lacked. Big Ben will be a great Pro-QB in his career, and I see big things for the kid. Of course, I don't see him being like a John Elway or like Payton Manning was this year, but I also don't see him like Brett "If nothing is open I'll screw up and throw a pick" Favre either. (Which is a good thing.) I could see him being like Brett Favre but without that bad aftertaste that I mentioned above.

quote BoneDragon23

I was looking in the last thread and noticing everybody bringing up Ryan Leaf and D. Underwood, and saying that Roethlisburger will be like them since he isn't a Manning. That's not at all true.

Big Ben is a first class person, like Tony Gonzalez, and he has a first class work ethic, two things that Underwood and Leaf lacked. Big Ben will be a great Pro-QB in his career, and I see big things for the kid. Of course, I don't see him being like a John Elway or like Payton Manning was this year, but I also don't see him like Brett "If nothing is open I'll screw up and throw a pick" Favre either. (Which is a good thing.) I could see him being like Brett Favre but without that bad aftertaste that I mentioned above.

Im not ganna really comment on those harsh words about favre but...
I do like big ben and think he would be worthy of a #1 pick. Along with his worth ethic, he likes to show off his skills. That shows confidence. And he has a very stronge arm. Thats really the only resemblence i see him to favre.

quote K0nKuzh0n

Im not ganna really comment on those harsh words about favre but...
I do like big ben and think he would be worthy of a #1 pick. Along with his worth ethic, he likes to show off his skills. That shows confidence. And he has a very stronge arm. Thats really the only resemblence i see him to favre.

It wasn't supposed to be overly harsh on Favre, yes, he's talented, and yes he's a Hall of Famer, but when he's in trouble, and nothing's there, he tries to force it but ends up getting picked off. I watched Ben play last year on TV, and he plays like Favre, but knows when to just throw the ball away, rather than tossing the ball up for grabs.

quote BoneDragon23

I was looking in the last thread and noticing everybody bringing up Ryan Leaf and D. Underwood, and saying that Roethlisburger will be like them since he isn't a Manning. That's not at all true.

Thats not really what I was saying from my standpoint.

I just found it a little funny that the Chargers are in a similar situation again. A Manning on the board, but also another QB who had an outstanding season. Last time it was Peyton Manning, and Ryan Leaf, who came out of nowhere and had a great year, and supposedly had more upside than manning did. Now, last time, the Chargers didnt have the first pick, they had the 2 pick. So choosing Manning over Leaf was impossible. This time, they do have the choice to take the Manning on the board, and I just dont see how they pass him up.

I just tend to think that if the Chargers are going to take a QB, they will take the Manning pedigree over a guy who just had a good season.

The Chargers skipped out on Vick, but landed Tomlinson. Not the worst of deals there, but the bolts need a QB to lead them for years to come, so I think they will take a QB and deal Drew Brees to someone else. As for who they pick, we just have to wait and see. My money is on Manning though if they do take a QB, simply because those who dont know history are doomed to repeat it. The history lesson? If there is a Manning on the board, dont screw around, take him.