Hey, I've been having a problem. I'm trying to be closed fist, but the last THREE closed fist decisions I've made (two of them big) haven't moved my closed fist marker down at all. Since I've reached the level of closed fist I am currently at, I have:

- Destroyed the Dam controls
- Screwed Mother Kwan out of her Teahouse
- Told the ghost child that I wouldn't help her

Yet my marker won't go down at ALL. Yet if I make even a petty open palm decision, it jumps up almost a centimeter! Can anyone help me?

well, I found that first you need to do LOTS of bad things. second, it kinda progresses with the game as well. I found that I was never truly a follower of the closed fist or open palm until the end of the game.


spoiler ahead! avert your eyes if you don't want to know! if you do, highlight the quote box.

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very close to the end, you can kill the water dragon goddess. that gives you plenty of bad points. as well, after you can kill your team mates, except for the toad demon and death's hand (to get the toad, talk to wildflower, i think her name is that, about her demons and you will eventually be able to choose the toad. also, oyu fight death's hand, and if you kill him, you can choose not to let his soul rest, and that gives you nasty points.) lets see...if you side with master li and join him, that is the ultimate evil. I think. or killing him is the ultimate evil. I don't remember. keep these in mind.

Well, it finally let me get a LITTLE more closed fist. I did SIX really evil things right in a row, screwing myself outta' countless experience for it, but it finally budged a little. Also just to clarify, I was doing nothing good in between the evil things, so it's not like I was counter-balancing myself. This game just has a really unbalanced good vs. evil tracker. One good thing (even a little) will push my meter between just under to just over a centimeter toward good, while it took six evil things (some of them pretty major) to get it to move just a few millimeters more into evil.

Additionally, I'd like to point out that I'm not that close to maxing out my evil. When I asked this question, I was about halfway between the halfway point, and the full evil point.

Finally, I'd like to point out that I realize that the terms "good" and "evil" aren't accurate descriptors of the paths, but they were good for generic terms that everyone will know what I'm talking about.

so did it help or no?

It actually takes a while to really make it go down but you'll have plenty of opportunities to make it gradually get there...and it actually can't go down all the way until you get to the Water Dragon in Chapter 7. Your decision there determines whether you're max Open Palm or Closed Fist (for CF choose to poison the water, not use the spear).

Not true I was able to be good and bad enough to get to the max before getting to that decision.

how? I did every bad thing there, and it still took me until the water dragon killing part to become fully closed fist follower.

*lol* SEe? This is exactly what I was talking about. And I appreciate your reply, friend, which did help me a little.

I still suffer pretty much the same problem now, except there are frequent places I keep finding that the ONLY way to advance the storyline are things that give me more open points. I assume that's based on past choices I had made, as I was trying to take the "true" closed path, by being closed fist without being evil-- a feat made impossible by the mechanics of the game (even though the game itself professes that not to be true).

Anyway, It seems to be letting me deeper into the closed fist now, so I guess my problem is over, but I find myself constantly sinking to further depths of depravity to accomplish this.

"Farmer Fong is still alive? His nephew wants him dead? Okay, kill them both."

"You there, with the prisoners! Those are terrible quality slaves, kill them and get a better batch!"

Etc.

also, new parts of the game are unlocked when you are bad. you get to fight the demon helper with big horns as the toad demon (if you have him) when you get to the palace. I think.

If you're talking about the "Wild Flower's Demons" battle, that only occurs if Wild Flower/Chai Ka is your Follower and you talk to them every chance you get (like when they say something when you're exploring the current area).

- Destroyed the Dam controls
- Screwed Mother Kwan out of her Teahouse
- Told the ghost child that I wouldn't help her

1st: No idea
2nd: I thought you were just suppose to take the money to hush this stuff all up from the owner.
3rd: You have to help the ghost girl, but instead of going to the guy and making him bury the children's bones, you have to kill him and take his head to the girl child.

killing the Forest Shadow and not killing the Mother will give you some CL points and some exp.

I had already a close fist fiiower when I was in the Imprerial city. My meter had already gone all the way down to the bottom!!1 And my character's body have a bloody red smoke & the shadow looks very evil!!! Actually it's very easy! Whatever u do, do evil things. And when comes to talking to anyone, never talk to them in a nice way, but in a rude & selfish ways!!!! Never help the weak, unless they are willing to pay u silver!!!

I tried to be closed fist one time.......some key points to being bad are:


Two rivers:

Tell Wen (The guy in the pagoda at the school) that he wastes Master Li's time.

Give Kia Min the cheap healing plant that hurts her.

Talk bad to the old dude sweeping the beach

Tien's landing:

Kill the dude who used to run the orphanage and give the head to the orphan ghost girl.

Both ways have this issue. It's intentional. If you are far along on the way of the open palm, one slip can send you hurtling down to being a normal human. If you are far along the way of the closed fist, heh... say thank you and you lose the hard earned points of untold slaughter.

Unless you complete almost all quests with almost all the same path, you won't achieve mastery until you decide what to do in the last stretch of the game (chapter 7). That bump is ginormous.

About getting the Ya Zhen battle. It's pretty simple. On arrival in the Imperial City, or at any time prior to landing at the palace, talk to the girl in three separate sessions. As far as I am aware, any sequence of choices here should unlock the follower Ya Zhen. If it does, you know you'll get that confrontation. If not, you can keep talking to the girl anytime prior to the palace arrival.