Neoseeker : News : Mozilla and Opera still unhappy about Windows 7

Mozilla and Opera still unhappy about Windows 7
Sean Ridgeley - Thursday, May 7th, 2009 | 9:00AM (PT) 0 Favourites (0)


That old antitrust story again...

Mozilla and Opera still unhappy about Windows 7 Image 1

Microsoft has a history of strategically monopolizing the browser sector in the computing world, among others. Presumably in keeping with recent antitrust action against the corporation from the European Commission, as previously reported, their latest OS, Windows 7, is featuring a first-time option to all but completely remove Internet Explorer, meaning a couple of clicks and a restart and your browser of choice will always be opened by default.

Apparently Mozilla -- makers of the ever-popular Firefox -- and Opera are not satisfied, however, still maintaining IE is given an unfair advantage due to it being the included browser by default. Mozilla's chairperson Mitchell Baker explains:

"Our initial review suggests this is a blatant use of the Windows operating system to change the market dynamics of browser usage. What we've seen so far is a clear example of why and how Microsoft's Windows monopoly damages competition in related products."

Opera were the ones who complained to the Commission over Microsoft's anti-competitive tactics, leading to a provisional finding against them. Their chief technology officer Hakon Wium Lie says they'd like to clear the air:

"This issue highlights the problem with the browser market. It's certainly something we would want to discuss."

Microsoft has stated the software, newly in the release candidate stage and previously in beta, was "only a test version aimed at a limited audience of experienced computer users" and the final experience will be different.

The proposed solution is to offer rival browsers as well as IE. Should this come to fruition, our suggestion, specifically (which is not to say this isn't asking too much), would be to offer a choice upon first installation, featuring a concise "preview" of each browser, instead of having three or more installed by default.

We look forward to seeing how this situation turns out in the final version of Windows 7; some headway should be made on June 3 following a meeting in Brussels.

In the meantime, what are your opinions? Are Mozilla and Opera's demands reasonable?

  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    Microsoft haters should colm down. It's not microsoft's fault that these haters can't create sophisticated operating system or browser like Microsoft. their demand is competely invalid. I used to use firefox as my primary browser, but after these comments, I just uninstall firefox and switched back to IE.
  • 2 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    not sure i understand mozillas crybaby attitude. I installed ubuntu on an old laptop and it came installed with firefox and nothing else, in essence forcing me to use firefox as the default browser. ITS THE SAME IDEA as MS using IE. stop whining.
  • 3 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    I have no love for Microsoft, but this is pretty lame. Are they complaining about Apple including Safari in OSX? If Microsoft was deliberately attempting to make other browsers not work on Windows 7 forcing users to use IE, then there's a problem, but this is just stupid.
  • 1 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    Let's not forget Microsoft is a corporation, in business to make money, and held accountable by their shareholders. Why should they be "required" to offer a alternative browser option at or even after Windows installation? BTW: I love Firefox, and it is my default browser, though; still use IE as well. The two can coexist just fine...
  • 1 thumbs!
    Cheesysoapopra since Mar 2002 | May 7, 09
    This was tried in the 90s in the USA and for the most part was thrown out. As for Europe, well, the big guys are almost always the 'bad guys' there so we'll see how this pans out. It's pretty pathetic the way the makers of other browsers that have nothing to do with Microsoft are acting. Talk about a bad case of entitlement syndrome.

    Imagine how ridiculous if a TV remote company was angry at Samsung because Samsung remotes come with Samsung TVs by default.
    Last edited by Cheesysoapopra :: May 7, 09
  • 0 thumbs!
    chautemoc since Mar 2008 | May 7, 09
    Hey guys, I edited my wording slightly in light of your comments.
    To be clear, I'm not sure if this is too demanding of Mozilla/Opera..that's why I asked you.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    jsppassion,

    Thank you, we would prefer if you used IE anyway.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    I dont like IE. I tried IE7 and IE8 and both are way too slow compared to Firefox (the browser i am using). MS can bundle and wrap tightly their IE 10x if needed: there are very good competitors out there and sorry, i do prefer them.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    IE is always lagging in standards, security, features anything. so jsppassions u r still living in dark with IE. In UBuntu, I'm sure if IE is available in Linux, every distro will offer the choice of IE or Mozilla.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    The companies making Firefox and Opera only are bringing this up to get a free ride on M$'s market share. They say they are doing this in the name of "free choice", but it's apparent that its just about market share. I think they should have to pay M$ to be allowed to offer their browser upon install of the OS. When these companies than make an OS that can compete with M$, then they can do the same thing that M$ does.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    Hi jsppassion: Firefox users usually have their 'primary' browsing experience customized to a level of elegance that they cannot possibly switch to the primitive browsing experience that ie8 offers at the current time.

    ie8 has just started walking the roadmap that firefox has laid out and has walked again and again to achieve masterful elegance.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    Hi Cheesysoapopra: I think web browsers are not legally a part of a disk operating system, like a remote control is universally recognised as part of a television 'set'.

    Secondly, let us focus on what is good for the consumer citizen and not what is good for the Corporations i.e. all of them, Mozilla, Microsoft alike.

    And perhaps what is good for the consumer may be an absolutely level playing field in the browser market.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 7, 09
    Level the playing field?
    Sure, let's have the Mozzila website start advertising and offering IE for download.
    The whole idea is silly. No corporation should be forced to advertise and/or support another corporations' products.
  • 0 thumbs!
    jdj1976 since Sep 2008 | May 8, 09
    i am a fan of Firefox and only use ie to go to mozilla website to download firefox wenever i format but i do have to admit it a bit baby of them to jump on microsoft over this

    mozzilla guys you have a better browser so dont worry
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 8, 09
    I think these postings have blown this out of proportions, they said "initial review" like as a first impression.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 8, 09
    How can they play the 'antitrust' card when there's other os's they could go to? Not to mention first party software and hardware producers have always used their own stuff upon installation. Why should they have to pay to put other ppl's stuff on their programs?

    I'm an xbox 360 user but i think microsoft should ask you if you'd rather play on a ps3 every time i turn it on. lol.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 8, 09
    Antitrust laws were introduced in 1890 in USA and approx. in 1952 in Europe. But many of you all still didn't bother to understand why.

    Is is very bad for consumers and for the market, when monopoly in one field is used kill competition in another field.
    By the correct merits of quality and price IE is the worst of the 5 major web browsers, it does not support many technologies and standards, and forces the web not to use them. Web is hold few years back because of IE.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 8, 09
    quote jps
    not sure i understand mozillas crybaby attitude. I installed ubuntu on an old laptop and it came installed with firefox and nothing else, in essence forcing me to use firefox as the default browser. ITS THE SAME IDEA as MS using IE. stop whining.
    There IS a difference, and a remarkable one: Microsoft has a Monopoly on the desktop OS market, nobody else has it.
    A browser is definitely not something which belongs with an operating system, so allowing Microsoft to include a browser means using monopoly power to extend the market and gain another monopoly. That is illegal in the US and EU.
    That means, Ubuntu, Apple, whoever can pretty much include ANYTHING they want with their operating system, but Microsoft is not allowed to do that.

    Is that really so hard to understand, Microsoft apologists?
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 8, 09
    quote jps
    not sure i understand mozillas crybaby attitude. I installed ubuntu on an old laptop and it came installed with firefox and nothing else, in essence forcing me to use firefox as the default browser. ITS THE SAME IDEA as MS using IE. stop whining.
    However, M$ is a convicted monopolist.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Nagare since Dec 2008 | May 9, 09
    Bundle Chrome in too?

    I also think that it should be an option, but a lot of the installing options are just left at default so it won't make much of a difference.

    and tbh, most of you/us wouldn't have FF if it wasn't for IE which is thankfully installed as an easy internet portal for us to download good browsers
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 11, 09
    You are aware that the betas for Windows 7 had an optional install of IE, right? you also had the option of using a pared-down version to get you another browser.

    So Mozilla and Opera don't really bhabe a leg to stand on.
  • 0 thumbs!
    Guest | May 12, 09
    This story, like so many others on the EU browser debate, is misleading. The complaint is NOT that Windows, by default, gives the option of installing IE. The complaint is that Microsoft requires OEM's to install Internet Explorer on Windows at the beginning automatically, and this IS a big problem. Mac comes with Safari by default, but Apple is the only supplier of Mac computers, so the situation is different, and in the Linux world, different distros can install different default browsers. In order for this to be similar, the Linux distros would have to get together and decide that all distros will install Browser X on initial install, and not offer any choice at all.

    Does it really make sense to people that, as mass media claims, Mozilla and Opera both want their browsers offered on initial Windows install by default? With the number of browsers out there, this would get ridiculous quickly, and no one with any brains would agree to it. Why not include Safari, Chrome, Konqueror, K-Meleon, Flock, Amaya... by default as well?
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